BONUS Episode: Workaholic to Wellbeing in Veterinary Medicine | Episode 36 | Reviving Vet Med

Do you ever feel like you’re on a hamster wheel that you cannot get off of? Have you been a “workaholic” since your pre-veterinary school years and can’t seem to break the habit? Do you feel like a “fake” or a “fraud” when it comes to your aptitude or abilities as a veterinary care provider?

In this bonus episode, I am interviewed by Dr. Megan Sprinkle, host of the Vet Life Reimagined podcast. We recap my journey in veterinary medicine including my repeated experiences of workaholism and imposter syndrome. The conversation is rich and relatable and offers some tools and strategies for veterinary professionals to consider using as well. 


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Transcript

Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Reviving Vet Med. In today's bonus episode, I'm really excited to share with you an interview that I did with Dr. Megan Sprinkle, host of the VetLife Reimagine podcast. We discussed my journey in veterinary medicine, including my repeated experiences of workaholism and imposter syndrome. I don't know if this feels familiar to you, but if you have a sense that you're on a hamster wheel that you can't get off of or that you have been a workaholic for most of your adult life and that sometimes you feel like a fake or a fraud when it comes to your aptitude or abilities, then this episode will resonate with you.

The conversation is rich and relatable and also comes with some tools and strategies for veterinary professionals to consider using as well. So, I'm really excited to share this episode with you today. Let's go ahead and get it started. This is the Reviving Vet Med podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Marie Holowaychuk. My mission is to improve the mental health and well-being of veterinary professionals around the world.

You have found the VetLife Reimagined podcast. It is the last Monday in March, women's history month. And my guest, Dr. Marie Holowaychuk, is a great way to wrap up the month. If the word workaholic even remotely hits close to home, this is an episode for you. It's certainly one that I need.

Workaholic tendencies are very common in the veterinary profession, and Marie found herself there and even described it as a hamster wheel struggling to get off this dangerous cycle. I so appreciate Marie's openness and honesty. She also went from student to teacher when it comes to well-being. The veterinary profession is getting better about having open conversation about these topics. But at the end of the episode, Marie brings up one we don't talk much about, and that's around parenthood in this profession.

And because the topic was prompted from the gratitude question, I know it's one that is vital to discuss and support each other on. So, thank you for being here. Let's talk with Marie. I usually start with, when did you know you wanted to get into veterinary medicine? And I am, but I already you're very giving.

You've shared a little bit about yourself on your website. So, I already know that both of your parents were veterinarians or are veterinarians. So how did that impact you as a child and kind of like when you decided you might make a similar path? Yeah. Such a great question, Megan, and it's so great to be here.

Thanks for having me. Yeah. So, my parents met in veterinary school. They got married in vet school. My dad was a year ahead of my mom.

And after they graduated, my mom opened up a small animal practice, essentially, in the town that that I grew up. And I, honestly, from my earliest memories, I was spending time there. I was there, you know, outside of daycare, on the weekends. As I got older, it was after school, you know, as soon as I could really be big enough to help, I was, like, emptying the garbages. And then once I could maneuver the vacuum and the mop, then it's like graduating to all the different levels of of cleanup in in the clinic until, you know, until I reached a maturity where I could do vaccine phone calls and reminders, you know, back in the day when we didn't have email and text reminders.

And, yeah, it's it just I completely immersed myself in the practice. And so, it was almost as if there was never another path for me. Like, it just felt so natural for me to want to do that. And, quite honestly, everybody just sort of assumed that's what I was going to do. I think I just took to it so naturally, and I always really enjoyed it.

I loved seeing all the animals and helping all the families, you know, who owned the pets, and just getting to work in a team. And I don't know. I just I saw how passionate my mom was about vet medicine, you know, and it just it was innate. I just decided this was gonna be it. I very briefly entertained some other career paths, but everything took me back to vet medicine.

So yeah. And we talked a little bit right before this on, you know, the reason for the podcast. And there's kind of a very large center vision of what veterinary medicine means and what it looks like. So, kind of bringing that back into this too, you've seen your mom be a, companion anal veterinarian in practice. Did you go into vet school thinking that's exactly what you would do as well?

And did you kind of explore other thoughts while you were in vet school? What was kind of that initial path for you? Yeah. Such a good question. So interestingly, my dad, you know, he was in regulatory medicine.

So, he worked for, the Canadian government in food inspection and food safety for many years, as well as in animal welfare with the Alberta government. So, I knew that there was other aspects of veterinary medicine, to be honest, like most government jobs, I was like, I don't really know what my dad does. Like, I know he has more regular hours than my mom. He's not on call, you know, those types of things. But, you know, I just, I think because I spent so much time in the practice, it just really spoke to me.

My dad, you know, he grew up on a farm and so we would spend some weekends on the farm and again, working with the cows and, you know, there was exposure to, to other species and, and other aspects of vet med. But yeah, you're absolutely right. I went into vet school thinking, and I remember even writing my application letter and saying very clearly, like my intention is to become a companion animal vet, to join my mom's practice, you know, to take over someday, etcetera. And it wasn't until, you know, kind of the third year of vet school, when I did my externship actually at my mom's practice but also did some elective rotations at other specialty hospitals, working with an ophthalmologist, working with a dermatologist, and, you know, just had exposure to this life outside of Companion Animal General Practice. You know, I was like, what?

There's specialties. People can do cataract surgery. If you have a very, you know, complex derm case, you can send it to a specialist. Like, this was, like, mind boggling to me. And, you know, and then I started talking to people that started asking me questions, like, well, are you gonna consider doing an internship after vet school?

And I was like, oh my gosh, I never had entertained that idea before. And, you know, for various reasons, I just I really started to have the sense that maybe I needed to explore some other options, you know. Having spent so much time in one place, working in one aspect of veterinary medicine, maybe there was, you know, something else out there for me. And I'll be honest, I felt sometimes very drawn to doing more. I mean, I loved the work of general practice, and I still have so much, you know, admiration for people who are general practice vets.

I think it's the hardest job in our profession. And, you know, I also really felt like I think I might wanna explore being that person who's getting sent those really complex cases and having to deal with some things that are outside of the realm of general practice. Yes. And now you did go into general practice after vet school. So, you were there.

You experienced it. Later you do go into internship and residency here in The States at NC State. But in your time as a general practitioner, do you mind sharing a little bit of your experience and maybe why you say that that is the one of the more difficult jobs in veterinary medicine. Well, gosh. You know?

I mean, you really are like a jack of all trades. You know? And I think there's a very special relationship that a GP has with their pet parents, with their families. I mean, I remember my mom, you know, having clients that were, like, second, third, going on fourth generation. You know, she was in her practice for forty-two years.

And, I mean, it was just shocking to me, like, the relationships that were formed. And so, I remember, like, my mom always, always was behind with appointments, and I think it's because half of her job was being the vet and half of her job was being the psychologist slash social worker, to her clients. Like, you know, she admitted that, you know, I think she knew they told her more things sometimes than they told their partners or other individuals. So, you know, I think there's a big I don't wanna say it's a burden, but I think there's a big responsibility there that many veterinarians in general practice take on. And I think, too, like, you're balancing a lot of different clients with a lot of different needs, a lot of different wants, and a lot of different problems that are just coming in with a clean slate.

And so, you're kind of starting from scratch, right? I have the luxury as an emergency and critical care specialist. When things come to me, they're pretty well, you know, figured out to some degree, and it's like, okay, this is really complex. We need your expertise here, or we know this is gonna require intensive care, so passing it on to you. But it's rare that I get those puzzling, you know, start from scratch.

Like, oh my goodness. Where do we begin? And what are we looking for here? So, it's just different. It's, it's just different.

And I think now more than ever before, there are a lot of demands on general practitioners, you know, especially in financially trying times, you know, that many pet owners say, you know what? I can't afford to be referred to a specialty center, you know, could you maybe try this surgery? Or, you know, could you do what you can to make sure that Fluffy lives as long as possible? So, I just, it feels like a lot, you know, in this day and age where we've made so many leaps and bounds in veterinary medicine, to see general practitioners, many of whom are doing ultrasounds and endoscopies and complex surgeries and acupuncture and, you know, all of these things. I mean, it's just it's mind boggling.

I'm just in awe all the time. So, your transition out of general practice, did you have anything there that you might wanna to share and maybe talk to people who might be considering that too? Maybe they they've been in general practice for a little while, but they're like, I wonder what it would be like to be, a specialist. What were your experiences that you would kind of give as wisdom to others? Yeah.

It's a great question, Megan. You know, I guess there's a few things that come up for me. First of all, I spent a very small amount of time, after vet school before going into my internship. I kind of made the decision. I knew what I was gonna do, and then I just continued on into my advanced training.

And after my internship, it was very clear to me my passion for emergency and critical care, and so I just sort of forged ahead with my training. So, I felt like I'd spent enough time in general practice to know that I wanted to look elsewhere. So, I think we don't know what we don't know. Right? I think if you haven't tried some aspect of that medicine, you don't know that it's not for you.

So, there's that piece of it. I will say that one thing I hear a lot from individuals who have gone from vet school into GP and have toyed with the idea of doing advanced training, they say to me, well, I was just, you know, I've always understood or been told that if you don't go into your internship and residency right after vet school, then they're probably not going to take you into a program. Like, the programs really want people who are just newly graduated. And I say absolutely not true in most circumstances. We've actually seen a little bit of a decline in some of the specialties in terms of applications.

So emergency and critical care certainly is not so much on the decline as it is just kind of stagnant. You know, there's much more demand and we're not seeing a rise in applications to meet those demands. You know, and there's other specialties as well. As you know, you know, some specialties are considerably more competitive than others, just because there are fewer positions or there's higher demand, but there is a great, great need for specialists. And as someone who was in academia for five years and trained interns and residents, I reviewed a lot of applications and never in that time did I look at an application and say, oh, hold on here.

This person has five years of GP experience. Take them off the list. It was like, wow, this person has five years of GP experience. What an amazing, you know, shift, and how much, you know, clinical expertise and life experience and maturity will they have that they can bring to this program. You know, it all comes down to the caliber of the individual, not necessarily what their life's journey has been and, you know, how much time they've spent in in practice before specialization.

So that's the one thing I would say, you know, for anybody listening who's in GP, that's like, I've always considered, you know, maybe doing a residency in this, that, or the other. Oh my gosh. Now is the time. You know? Like, the positions are open.

There was a recent white paper published by one of the big corporate conglomerates that looked at all of the job openings that they had compared to all of the residency positions that were gonna be filled that year. And even if all of those residency graduates went into all of the open positions, they weren't even gonna fill all the positions, and that was just for that one large company. So, like, the point being, there is so much work out there for specialists right now. And I know for GPs too, so I don't wanna pull all the GPs out of where they're needed to. But, you know, from one specialist to an aspiring specialist, I would say go for it, if that's something that you're considering.

Yeah. I think that's great. No. I think we need people of all different backgrounds and experiences in these areas because I think it helps with better collaborations. And, you know, I I've had several conversations on and off the podcast about how can we better collaborate even within our own profession, whether it's GPs and specialists, like, how can we better work with each other?

So, man, if you're coming in with a good handful of experience in GP, that means that you can relate better, you know, as a specialist. So, I think everybody brings something unique. So, I think that's important as you're thinking about applying for another, you know, step of your career journey. Speaking of which, you mentioned this, after residency and you eventually go to be an assistant professor, and you're teaching, residents, you're publishing papers, and all sorts of thing. So, do you mind sharing a little bit of that experience and what that was like and how you kind of made it through to the next step?

Yeah. Such a great question again, and, you know, it hits on so many different points, you know? Yeah. There's no doubt that I went from internship right into my residency, right into this faculty position and just hit the ground running. And, you know, like so many of us in veterinary medicine, you know, we're very driven, high achieving, many of us with perfectionistic tendencies and workaholistic tendencies.

And I felt, you know, a lot of imposter syndrome when I started my faculty position, just like when I started my residency position, and just like when I started my internship position, you know, as many of us know, imposter syndrome is very common with career transitions. And so, I was like, oh my gosh, all these people around me have these PhDs and extra graduate degrees, and I just have a residency, you know, diplomat status. And so I just really pushed myself to publish as much as I could, to take on more graduate students, to, you know, expand on the residency training program, to revamp the student rotation curriculum, to, you know, all the things, like many of us in life, when we feel the positive outcomes of some of the things we're doing, it's like a little hit. Right? And then we want to do it again, and do it again, and do it again.

And I was getting so many hits in my professional life that I was really neglecting my personal life. And that's not really what I wanted. Like, in life, I really wanted this, like, balanced, you know, family life, professional life, you know, what I'd seen my parents grow up with or, you know, what I had grown up with seeing that in my parents. And it just wasn't happening for me, you know? And it was like, I kinda got to the point where I was like, well, you know, at least I'm good at what I do, and at least I can publish papers and get these grants and do these things.

So, I guess that's where I just need to focus my time and energy. So, it got to the point where, you know, when I was on call, I was like, well, I'm just in case I get called in, I may as well just be working. You know? And I was just working all the time. And the personal side of things just got smaller and smaller and smaller.

And it got to the point where it just didn't feel sustainable for me. And it's interesting because at the time, I knew something wasn't right. Like, it just wasn't feeling, like I say, sustainable, doable, balanced. I was starting to have a lot of health problems as well, mentally and physically, that people were suggesting, you know, could this be burnout, pushing yourself too hard, do you need a break, etcetera. And it's when I started to speak to a life coach, was right around then.

And it was so funny because they sort of said to me, well, you know, is there anything else that you could do? Like, maybe there's a different job that you could have, or there's a different thing that you could be doing within vet medicine. And, you know, to your point, it was like, no. Like, no. There's nothing don't you see my path?

I went internship, residency, faculty. There's only five vet schools in Canada, one of which is French speaking, and I don't speak fluent French, so maybe you don't understand, but I can only work at these vet schools. Like, it was so ingrained in me that this was the path that I had chosen. This was ultimately how it was gonna be. There was no other options for me.

So, until some sort of position opened up at some other vet school, it just that was gonna be it. And, you know, I briefly explored some other options at the other vet schools, but I just I couldn't see the forest through the trees. I could not imagine stepping out of this role until I ended up really having to step out of this role because I just couldn't do it anymore. I think that's really interesting that, you know, someone just has to ask sometimes, and that's when we actually allow ourselves to think about something. So, I'm really curious.

The life coach, how did she kind of work with you into that next step? What could it look like? What were your options? And first of all, I think life coaching is amazing, and we I don't think we talk about it enough in vet med. So, that's amazing.

But, yeah, like, how did they help you, and how did you work through that? Because, again, you went from you had no idea that there was even another path. So, like, how do you even start? Well, it's funny because I didn't really. You know?

And they didn't. It was kind of the first seed that was planted. And, honestly, it wasn't just the life coach. Like, I remember my realtor at the time who'd, you know, helped me buy my house that I had purchased there, and we remained friends, and, ultimately, she sold my house when I left. But even she said to me, as someone outside of the vet profession, she was like, I think you're not recognizing all of the different things that you could be doing.

And I think this is the issue that we have in vet medicine. You know, I don't wanna say the issue, but it is an issue that many of us have, not everyone, but many of us, where we do get so pigeonholed into seeing ourselves in this one aspect of that medicine, and not entertaining anything else, even when where we find ourselves is not working. And this is where, sadly, we see a lot of people just up and leave the profession because they're like, well, I tried it, and it didn't work for me. And it's like, oh my gosh. But did you consider industry?

Did you consider government? Did you consider part time clinical work? Did you consider entrepreneurship? Like, there is so many other things that you can do. So, I'm getting ahead of myself.

But to your point, Megan, I got to the point where I was like, I don't know what this is gonna look like. I know that what I'm doing right now isn't sustainable. It doesn't feel right, and I'm just gonna move closer to home. I'm gonna move back to be closer to my family where I can hopefully have some better form of work life balance, some more time dedication dedicated to my mental health and well-being. I'm going to continue to practice as a specialist, so I had it in my head.

I was still going to speak and teach and, do clinical work. It was just gonna be freelance, basically. So, there would be less on the side of research, although I did continue some of my research and more on the side of the clinic work and the teaching and mentorship work of what I was doing in academia. So, you know, it was outside of the box in that I was becoming a solopreneur instead of an employee of another, you know, company or institution. But it was still very much entrenched in this vision of practicing emergency and critical care specialists with a little bit of lecturing at conferences on the side, basically.

So how did you go from getting through the personal struggle to helping other people with a similar struggle? Yeah. Well, that's where it gets juicy. So, you know, all of this happened. I moved to Calgary, which is about three hours from where I grew up, so close to family and friends still.

And, you know, I just the same patterns. I had not changed a whole lot. You know? I had started seeing a counselor, a psychologist who was helping me through some things, and was definitely taking some concerted efforts to look after myself better. And I still I mean, you don't shift, you know, thirty some years of patterning in a few months.

You know? So I was still very much a perfectionist, very much on the workaholism, you know, hamster wheel, pushing myself really hard, throwing myself into work, deriving all of my worthiness from work, which, honestly, was a really difficult recipe for me, given that when you start your own business, and this was, you know, this was back in 2014, this is when we did not have all the veterinary shortages we have now. There weren't a ton of locum positions for me. I was relatively new on the speaking circuit. So, you know, I was getting some speaking gigs, but it wasn't it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like it is today.

And I started to, you know, really experience more severe signs of depression, which just drove me, ironically, just to kinda push myself harder and work harder to kinda fill that void and just to kind of help myself to feel better. And, you know, it was through all of this running around and workaholism and still not taking the best care of myself that I was in a car accident. And the car accident, my car was totaled. I had a concussion, you know, some mild upper body injuries, nothing catastrophic, thank goodness. But that was like a wakeup call for me.

First of all, I had, like, literally had to slow down because I had injuries that I had to tend to. I had recovery that I had to do. Honestly, I took it like a sign from the universe. I was like, okay. I hear you.

Like, this is not working for me. Something needs to change. And so, I ended up actually taking, some of the money from the car accident settlement, which wasn't my fault, and putting it towards yoga teacher training. And so, I took a month off, and I did my two-hundred-hour yoga teacher training. I've been a yoga practitioner for years.

Just thought, even if I never teach yoga, I would just love to deepen my practice and gift myself this experience, and I loved it. I spent that whole month reading all of these books on self-care, meditation, mindfulness, self-awareness, emotional intelligence, really deeply within therapy, and trying to really understand my patterns and my habits and my tendencies. Honestly, I had so many moments during that month of time and in the months that followed, and it just built from there. I thought I started to do a lot of digging into wellness among veterinarians. At the time, we were having a lot of conversations about suicide and, psychological distress, but I couldn't find any solutions.

I was like, why did nobody teach me about meditation? Why did nobody talk to me about self-care? Why aren't people advocating more for mental health and speaking to a counselor or a therapist? So, I started looking into the evidence, on that for care providers in general. And at the time, I was doing a lot of speaking at conferences, and I thought, you know what?

I can talk all day about emergency and critical care, but so can hundreds of other specialists. Why don't I start talking more about wellness? Because I had started to see the changes in myself, and I knew that this was change that we needed for others in the profession. So, I just started offering to do, k. I'll do three lectures on emergency, but then can I do one lecture on wellness?

And at first people were like, oh, nobody's going to want to go listen to that. Like, stick with the medical stuff. And then, you know, it just kind of picked up traction, and as a yoga teacher, and soon after a meditation teacher, I started offering retreats and, workshops, and that morphed into online programs. And then I got my coaching certification, and I offer coaching, and it's just grown from there totally organically and mostly out of my own lived experience and my own healing journey, which has been incredible. I'm so grateful.

Oh, wow. Yeah. I think we're definitely talking about it more. People are interested in going to these types of talks. When I went to the BMX, there were so many talks about mental well-being and diversity and inclusion and all of these non-textbook, you know, topics, leadership, those kinds of things.

And I had mentioned it to someone, and they're like, really? So, I mean, I guess it's a good sign, right, that that we're doing this more and more. People are not only more open to talking about it, but I think people are really actively trying to find ways of finding solutions. Hi. We'll be back with the second half of the show after this quick break.

But first, I wanted to take a moment and thank you for listening to the VetLife reimagine podcast. If you're enjoying the show, the best way to support us is to leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast app. It really helps us to reach more listeners, and we really appreciate it. Thanks for listening. And now back to the episode.

Speaking of solutions, what are some of the things that you have found that people mentioned specifically that is helping them in veterinary medicine? Yeah. Gosh. So many things. So, you know, we know based on some recent research that it appears, for whatever reason, we don't know why.

We there's no causation in this and that we don't think vet medicine causes this. But we do know that for whatever reason, veterinarians do tend to be at higher risk of certain mental illnesses. Specifically, depression and anxiety seem to be toted highly in the literature, especially among women in the profession. And as someone who lives with anxiety and depression, I have had just immeasurable results from talking to a mental health professional. So, you know, lots of companies now offer benefits that include mental health coverage.

Lots of state and provincial veterinary medical organizations offer employee assistance programs that, you know, have twenty-four seven mental health support. In spite of all of this, we know that there is a strong mental illness stigma held by veterinarians. There was research that the AVMA did a few years ago that showed that US Veterinarians, for whatever reason, do not believe that others are generally kind towards a person with mental illness, at a rate about twice the general population. So that stigma, I think, prevents people from sharing their struggles in our profession. I think it prevents them from seeking help.

I think it doesn't help too, that we are entrenched as helpers. So, for us to need help, it's like, oh, that just feels too uncomfortable for me. Like, I'm the one that delivers the help, not the other way around. I'm, I have an online program that's running right now, and the attendees have been very, very open in talking about their mental illnesses. And almost everyone is experiencing some form of a mental illness right now, and they're all seeking help, which is amazing.

So, I'd like to see more of that, for sure. And I have seen benefits in the people who have chosen to go that, to utilize those supports. I think I would be remiss as well, not to talk about self-care. I think, I mentioned we are very entrenched as helpers and caregivers, and what we forget sometimes is that we first have to look after ourselves in order to help others. And, you know, I never learned this in vet school.

There was no concept in my mind about self-care after I graduated, and even when I was on faculty, you know, at the OVC. So, this, for me, is something that we need to ingrain in veterinary team members, every member of the veterinary team, from a very early, career stage. And it's just the reminder that practicing self-care, all of the things you do for you that build up your health and well-being, so whether that's, you know, exercising, getting enough sleep, taking care of your finances, spending time with friends, setting boundaries at work, you know, all of these things that you are doing for you and for your health and well-being, these are what build up your reserves, so that when you have those really crappy days at work, that you're okay. You can get by. You're not gonna, you know, do what I do and have a bunch of unhealthy coping strategies and, you know, really have health consequences as a result.

I think that is a really, a big tool that I would suggest for people. One of the other things that has been absolutely transformative for me, that also started, after I left my faculty position, is the practice of mindfulness. So, when I was seeing a physician, after I left the vet school, she actually said to me, you know, have you ever considered a mindfulness practice to help with your mental health? And I was like, I don't even know, like, I don't even know what that means. This was before I had done my yoga teacher training and my meditation teacher training.

And so, she recommended a local, in person, eight-week mindfulness-based stress reduction program. And this program was running once a week for eight weeks. It was all professionals. So, I was the only vet, but there was physicians, psychiatrists, psychologists, nurses, lawyers. And, once a week we met, and we talked about mindfulness and what that means and, you know, the different parts of it.

And then we would practice meditation for usually half an hour. And then every day, other than those weekly meetings, we would have some form of a personal practice at home. So, it could be a body scan, could be a seated meditation, moving meditation, and that went on for eight weeks. And this eight-week MBSR program has been I mean, there's so much research behind it in terms of the benefits mentally and physically for people. And that was huge for me.

Like, I saw such a difference in my anxious thoughts, in my depressive tendencies, in my reactivity, in my ability to be fully present for that which was happening in front of me, and that just kind of propelled me on this, like, journey to being, you know, a daily meditator and a mindfulness practitioner, a mindfulness teacher. I like to think of myself as an advocate, you know, for mindfulness. Some might say I push mindfulness a little bit, but I think those would be the big three things that I would at least suggest a person start with. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, those are great. And I'm glad that you mentioned that, you know, you didn't even know what that meant at the beginning. And if someone, like, pinned down me and say, give me a good definition of mindfulness, it might take me a second too. If someone is interested in learning a little bit more, I definitely want you to share your personal resources. But any resource that you would point people to learn a little bit more about some of the things you've mentioned.

Oh, yeah. I would love to. You know, this is the good thing, and you touched on it already, Megan, when you said, like, momentum is picking up for wellness. Like, when you're going to your next conference, whether it be VMX, Western, you know, your local state organization conference, look for those wellness sessions. I can promise you there will be at least one or two wellness sessions or even a whole stream offered.

So, you know, give yourself permission that you don't have to learn all the new things when it comes to the medical aspects of vet med because here's the reality. If you're not taking care of yourself, it doesn't matter that you learned some new ultrasound technique or some new medication. You have to be able to utilize that, which means you have to take care of yourself. So, taking advantage of the conferences would be one thing. There's also conferences and opportunities that we're seeing pop up around that are solely dedicated to wellness.

So, there's those opportunities. I'm seeing a lot of companies who are offering coaching and, you know, career guidance for those who are thinking about seeking other opportunities. I also offer coaching and wellness programs, you know, myself, so people can find out more about me and those opportunities on my website, marieholowaychuk.com. You know, I will also say that, remember that we're human, just like everybody else. And so, these concepts like mindfulness and sleep hygiene and, mental health and whatever, they apply to everyone.

So, if you go to the library or the bookstore, check the shelves for some of the mainstream books on some of these topics. I mean, I have just been eating up the work of Brene Brown and other advocates when it comes to boundaries and Jon Kabat Zinn about mindfulness. Like, there's just so many amazing resources out there for all human beings. They do not have to be veterinary specific. So do that.

And I would also say that the AVMA has some exceptional well-being resources as well. So, if you go to the well-being site on their website, they've got a couple of self-assessments, they've got tools for financial wellness, they've got lots of DEI initiatives, you know, they've got a workplace well-being certificate program. They've got even a well-being train the trainer program. Tons of resources. They're all evidence based, very thoughtfully put together.

And, honestly, many of them are free or at very low cost or no cost, certainly, if you're an AVMA member. But even for me as a non AVMA Canadian member, you know, I still, access all of those resources. And the last thing I would just leave everyone with, I guess, just a plug for my new website. I recently curated, some of my favorite resources in the form of handouts and blog posts and, posters and other self-assessments on my new website, revivingvetmed.com. And so, I would love for people to check that out as well.

And if there's anything else you're looking for, or you think you might need, then reach out to me, and I'll be happy to direct you, you know, to wherever I think will be beneficial. Oh, that's perfect. And I'll make sure to put those links in the show notes for everybody as well. And just because I love this as well, you're right, Raul. First and foremost, humans.

So, there's a lot of resources, that are not veterinary specific but are so helpful. I love Brene Brown. That's actually something that I did. I kinda mirrored some of what you were talking about with the pandemic and getting sent home. And it's like, well, what do I do with my, you know, my idle hands?

It's like, I need to learn. I need to do something. And so, I did. I listened to podcasts. I've read books, all of these. And none of them were veterinary specific. But it really helped me to understand who I was, what were my values, to, you know, have that mindfulness practice. So, surrounding yourself with those types of things is so, so rewarding. So, thank you for sharing that. That's my pleasure.

Yes. Okay. Before I let you go, I always wrap up with a final four questions to get to know you just a little bit more. So, the first one is, what is something that people may get wrong about you? People often, presume that I'm extroverted because of, you know, my presence on stage or, you know, my ability to talk to people, but I am incredibly introverted.

So, if you ever see me at a conference off in the corner, having a very intimate conversation with someone, it's because that's my preference. That's how I fill up versus, you know, the exhaustion that comes from, you know, large groups and being on stage and that kind of thing. Yep. I definitely relate to that. So, question number two is, what is a hidden skill or interest do you have?

I mean, I played a lot of musical instruments, the most recent of which is the ukulele, but I grew up playing the violin. I've also played the standing bass, the oboe. I think those are the biggest ones. I try to practice the drums when I go visit my dad because he has a drum set, so music is definitely a hidden gem of mine. Very nice.

Does that also get, pulled into, like, any mindfulness or kinda self-care as well? You know, for the longest time, the ukulele was when I was pregnant with my daughter, I was definitely having a daily ukulele practice for her. I was learning, you know, lullabies and various other things. And then and then she arrived, and it was like all that went out the window, as do many things when we're a new mom. But, yeah, I think music is healing, and I think for sure it's a form of self-care.

I like that. The third question is, what is something on your bucket list? Oh, that's a tough one. I'm always challenged by this bucket list question because I understand the importance of you know, remembering our mortality, and it just feels like a lot of pressure. You can lower the pressure.

What's just something you really want to do? What's something? Okay. Thank you, Megan, for reframing that for me. What's something I really want to do?

You know, I miss travel. Pre pandemic, I was so blessed to have speaking engagements, really, all over the world. I remember speaking to a group of vets during a hike to Machu Picchu, speaking in Belize, I just so many of these amazing destinations. And, and then I used to travel a lot for pleasure. You know, I have family in Europe, and so I would go to Amsterdam usually every year, every other year.

I miss that. And I couldn't even tell you, like, the next place I would want to travel if I could, but I would really love to get back to travel, and travel for pleasure, really, because that's, you know, that's so different than traveling for work. But, yeah, I miss adventuring. I miss being exposed to different cultures and different people and different foods, and my world has become so small since becoming a mom and with the pandemic, and I would just love to expand that world again. Yeah.

Alright. Sorry. One off question. As you do maybe webinars and speaking engagements all over the world, is this a similar challenge? No matter where you go in this the mental health, the need for mindfulness, is it is it out there everywhere?

I'm sure it's not just North America. I you know, that's such a good question. So, I have definitely done some speaking in Europe, and I will say the conferences have a different vibe. Mhmm. They definitely really emphasize and this I don't I don't wanna generalize, especially as I am not, you know, I don't live in Europe full time, and I'll leave it to the Europeans to correct us on this.

But my perception was that they do really value their life outside of work. And even at the conferences, there is a huge emphasis on the social aspect. You know? Yes. They have their lectures and whatnot set up, but almost equally, if not more important for them are the activities, the events, the parties, the socialization, which, yes, we have those events at our conferences here in North America, but for me, they're a small part of the conference versus the conferences that I've spoken at in Europe.

That's, you know, it would be unheard of for me to attend and to not go to the parties. Let me just put it that way. But that's the important part of being, like, we'll listen to you talk, but, like, you must be at the party. You know? So, I think, you know, all of that said, they still have their challenges.

You know, I do a program through the Royal Vet College in The UK every year, and we same concerns come up on the discussion boards. You know, working too hard, not dedicating time outside of work for the things that, you know, fill us up. Yeah. I think in general, I know I'm kind of going around in circles with this question. In general, the issues are definitely the same with some slight cultural differences perhaps on the whole.

Yeah. No. That I think that's really interesting. I'll have to keep digging that, and I'll maybe we can do some episodes where we have some international representation. That's no.

That's really interesting. The last question I have for you is what is something you are most grateful for? Oh my gosh. It has to be my daughter. I have wanted a family since I was little.

And, you know, I spent so much time dedicating myself to this profession, and still do, and to my career. And I, you know, I think with specialization and living away from home, and my workaholistic tendencies, and everything else, I just life was passing me by, and I was getting closer to 40, and was unpartnered, and I thought, oh my goodness, like, I'm missing my window to have a child of my own. And so, it was two years of trying to get pregnant, on my own, and finally got pregnant and had, thankfully, such a healthy pregnancy at almost the age of 40, and this beautiful, healthy, amazing daughter who's now almost three. And I, I mean, I feel emotional just talking about her. She is just the best thing that ever happened to me.

And that's saying a lot, getting to work a whole career so far in vet medicine, but she is just she's something. Yeah. Well, that is just beautiful. And I do wanna thank you so much for what you do and the amount that you are giving back to individuals everywhere and including veterinary medicine, which I think we both hold very special in our hearts. So, thank you.

Mhmm. Thank you. Thank you again for being part of Reimagining VetLife. Your support of the podcast means a lot. Please share the podcast with someone you know who would appreciate it, especially vet students who can really learn all the different ways of life and career in veterinary medicine could look like.

And if you like video, this is a video podcast as well, so you can find us over on YouTube. Subscribing to the YouTube channel is a great way to support the podcast as it allows more people to find us. Take care, and until next time. So that's it for today's episode of Reviving Vet Med. I hope that you took away some tips and strategies for coping with your own imposter syndrome and workaholism, and that you will do one thing after listening to today's episode to make a positive change in your life.

And if you can't think of something that you'd like to do for your yourself, then I hope that that one thing will be to share this episode with a friend or a coworker so that they can benefit from it as well. If you enjoyed this interview as much as I did giving it, I hope that you will also subscribe to the VetLife Reimagine podcast. There's a link to their podcast page in my show notes for this episode. And if you have any questions about today's episode or suggestions for future podcast topics, please feel welcome to email me at info@revivingvetmed.com. I'd like to thank my amazing assistant, Jamie, for producing this episode.

And of course, I'd like to thank you for listening through to the end. I hope you'll tune in next time until then take care of yourself. Bye now.