Perinatal Mental Health in Vet Med | Episode 66 | Reviving Vet Med

Perinatal mental health is still a taboo topic in many medical professions — including veterinary medicine — despite the very real impact it has on professionals during pregnancy and postpartum. In this episode, we speak with Dr. Emily Singler — veterinarian, mom of four, and author of Pregnancy and Postpartum Considerations for the Veterinary Team — to discuss how mental health challenges show up during this pivotal life phase, and what can be done to support those going through it.

Emily shares insights from her chapter on mental health, including distinctions between mental health and wellness, common perinatal mental health disorders (such as depression, anxiety, OCD, PTSD, and psychosis), and the many ways veterinary professionals can access help and healing. We also explore the vital role of social support, self-care, therapy, and medication, and how veterinary workplaces can evolve to better support expectant and new parents.

If you’ve ever struggled with the demands of working parenthood, or want to be a better ally to colleagues who are, this episode is full of practical insights, heartfelt reflections, and compassionate guidance.

Watch the Video Version of this Episode
https://youtu.be/iZSqsXSaSpI

Resources
Purchase Dr. Emily Singler’s book: Pregnancy and Postpartum Considerations for the Veterinary Team: https://www.routledge.com/Pregnancy-and-Postpartum-Considerations-for-the-Veterinary-Team/Singler/p/book/9781032524993

Follow Emily Singler on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-singler-vmd/ and Instagram https://www.instagram.com/emilysinglervmd/

Explore Emily Singler’s website for her coaching and consulting offerings: http://emilysinglervmd.com/

Postpartum Support International: https://postpartum.net/

Thank You to Our Sponsor
Reviving Veterinary Medicine: www.revivingvetmed.com

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Questions, Suggestions, or Sponsorship Opportunities
Email: podcast@revivingvetmed.com

Transcript

Today's episode of the Reviving Vet Med Podcast is proudly sponsored by Reviving Veterinary Medicine, where mental health, compassion and community come first. We know that veterinary medicine can be tough, and we also know it doesn't have to feel that way. At Reviving Veterinary Medicine, our mission is to help veterinary professionals like you create careers that are joyful, sustainable and fulfilling. Whether you're struggling with burnout, craving better communication your team, or just trying to figure out what's next, we offer one-on-one coaching, critical incident debriefs, engaging webinars, and tons of free tools and resources to support your growth. Everything we do is grounded in evidence, empathy and experience because we've been there too. To learn more and to get started, visit us today at revivingvetmed.com we can't wait to support you on your wellbeing journey. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Reviving Vet Med. 

In this episode we'll be discussing perinatal mental health in vet medicine, an important and often overlooked topic. This is especially important in light of World Maternal Mental Health Day, which was recognized on May 7th. Today I'm joined by Dr. Emily Singler, a veterinarian, writer and mom of four who brings both professional expertise and personal experience to this conversation. Emily is a 2005 graduate of the University of Pennsylvania School of Vet Medicine and has worked in a variety of settings including shelter medicine, private practice, mobile and relief work. Today she's a veterinary writer and content specialist and the founder of the Community of Veterinary Writers Facebook group. Emily is also the author of the 2023 book Pregnancy and Postpartum Considerations for the Veterinary Team, which she wrote to support veterinary professionals transitioning into working parenthood as well as the leaders who support them. 

She is also a Certified Retained Parental Leave Coach through the center for Parental Leave Leadership, using her training to advocate for better workplace support for expectant and working parents in vet med. Topics in today's episode include defining mental wellness, understanding the types of perinatal mental health disorders that can affect veterinary professionals, and exploring the many ways that we can seek help and offer support both personally and professionally. So with that said, I'm really excited to share this information with you. Like, let's go ahead and get into the episode. This is the Reviving Vet Med podcast and I'm your host, Dr. Marie Holowaychuk, and my mission is to improve the mental health and wellbeing of veterinary professionals around the world. Hi Emily, it is so wonderful to have you on the podcast. Thanks for joining me today. 

Hello. Yes, thank you for having me on I'm excited to be here. 

Aw. Well, we're going to get right into it. I shared in the introduction that you wrote Pregnancy and Postpartum Considerations for the Veterinary Team. And I'm wondering why you felt it was important to write the book and specifically to include a chapter on mental health. 

Yeah, so I wrote the book. It got to be a calling for me, just after my own experiences throughout pregnancy and motherhood and working in veterinary medicine and just not feeling I could find the resources that I wanted. I think, as a lot of veterinary professionals probably feel, we want. We want research, we want evidence, we want facts, we want to see sort of like a standard of care, if you will, that we can follow so we can feel like we're following best practices. You know, I wanted that for myself. I also just wanted reassurance, and I just wasn't finding that from anyone. I was around people I was working with, people who were managing me, my own healthcare providers. I couldn't really find the answers to a lot of my questions. 

You know, it started out being mainly about workplace hazards, that kind of stuff. And then once I started researching it just grew into this much bigger project. And I just decided along the way that if I was going to do it, I wanted to do it right and I needed to include as much as I could about the whole experience. And I don't think you can do that without touching on mental health, because it's such a big part of the experience and I think it's one that many people are not prepared for. And how could you be if you've never experienced it? So I wanted to do what I could to bring light to a topic that also can be somewhat taboo to talk about. 

Although I'm seeing that change now to some degree, because I think the more that we can know that we're not the only ones experiencing it and know that this is something to have on our radar and that there are things that we can do and places we can go for help, the less like we are to suffer alone, which is what I really wanted to avoid other people going through. 

Yeah, I love that we both share similar experiences in certainly your later pregnancies, which you talk about in the book. And then my one and only daughter, and I remember having a conversation with my physician before I had her because I have a history of depression. There was this conversation about postpartum depression and I felt great at the time. I was very lucky. I had a really a relatively easy pregnancy. As far as us geriatric pregnant women go And I remember thinking, I feel great, like it'll be okay. And so I wasn't taking medication and at the time, and it ended up that I had an awful experience with my postpartum mental health. And I share that in your book as well. 

For listeners who may not be familiar, how do you define perinatal mental health and how does that differ from general mental health and wellness? 

That's a really good question. I love that we're using the term perinatal mental health because I think probably the term that more people are familiar with is postpartum depression, which is a much smaller kind of zeroed in condition, which is real and still something a lot of people experience, but it doesn't really encompass the whole experience. So perinatal mental health I would define as sort of your state of mental health during pregnancy or after the arrival of a child. And it is not specific to women and it's not even specific to pregnancy. So you could experience perinatal health disorder or perinatal health challenge if you're a father, if you're a non-birthing parent, if you had a child via surrogacy or really any way that a child comes into your family, you do not have to give birth to experience perinatal mental health challenges. 

That's part of it. And you can experience it during pregnancy as well, even though not everybody does. I think we think of it as something that only happens after the baby or the child comes, but it can in some cases start during pregnancy. And it's not just depression. There's depression, which is a big part of it. There's anxiety, there's OCD, there's psychosis, there are, there's a whole kind of spectrum of different diagnoses that are included in that umbrella. 

Yeah, absolutely. I think one thing that has always stood out to me as a mental health advocate is this understanding that everybody has mental health. Right, right. It's like our physical health. So as you move through, for those who are pregnant and having a child physically, they're going to have physical symptoms and or experiences during their pregnancy journey and postpartum. And so encompassed within that or alongside that with equal importance, is our state of mental health. You named a lot of different challenges and I love that you highlighted the inclusivity of everyone that can be impacted. It doesn't just have to be the person who's carrying the baby physically and it can be at any stage of the journey. You've written a lot about the high prevalence of mental health challenges among veterinarians. 

As a whole, that's obviously something we talk about a lot at reviving vet medicine. I'm wondering, what does the research specifically show about veterinarians and perinatal mental health? I'd love to hear your thoughts. 

Yeah, and there's unfortunately not a lot of research, but there is a good peer reviewed study that I put in my book that was a survey performed on just over a thousand veterinarians who were all identified as mothers. I think it was put out on Facebook. And so it was kind of put out and anyone who wanted to could respond and fill up the survey if they wanted to. And they had just over a thousand responses. And from that group, about 16% reported that they had been diagnosed with postpartum depression. And another 36% reported signs that were potentially consistent with the diagnosis of postpartum depression. So if you were to look at those numbers together, that would be really high because I think in the general population it's somewhere between like 1 in 5 or 1 in 7. 

Someone in there, 10 to 15% in some other studies of individuals, experience some kind of perinatal mental health disorder. So the numbers in this survey, if you just look at it at face value, could suggest that the incidence is higher. I would hesitate to make that assumption because the questions in the survey may have potentially attracted more individuals who wanted to report something that they had experienced, asked not only about mental health challenges, but also about discrimination in the workplace. So I think those questions may have potentially self-selected for more individuals who had experienced some kind of negative outcome. I don't know. I think we need more research to say for sure. But I would assume that the numbers are at least on par with the general population and possibly higher. We don't know. I'd love to see further research on that subject. 

But even if the numbers are not any higher than the general population, it's still a significant number of individuals who could be helped, who potentially are suffering more than we would like them to and more than they need to in order to avail themselves of the resources that are available. Hopefully we'll see more research on that in the future. 

Yeah, I hope so too. You bring up a lot of really important points. There's this responder bias, right. Whenever we do survey research studies, and I've been involved in a few of those. And yeah, people are gonna respond if they feel interested in the topic or particularly affected by the topic. You've written before and shared with the research, which is that veterinarians do have a higher risk of mental health problems. Like depression and anxiety as a whole. And I think you've written in your book as well that can be a predisposing factor to developing perinatal mental health challenges. If you have a history of that. So it would make sense that it's higher. And yes, those numbers reported in that survey are particularly high. So was that just the population that was selected for in that particular survey? 

Either way, I'm really glad that we're talking about this. And I wonder if you can walk us through some of the more common perinatal mental health disorders that veterinary professionals can be affected by. You've mentioned depression. I know anxiety is another big one. How do these typically present? 

Yeah. So just a little disclaimer. I just want the make clear for anyone out there listening. This is something that I have a special interested in and that I've researched for my book and had my own experience with. I'm not a licensed mental health professional. That is certainly not my field of expertise. But I have done a lot of research in preparation for my book and other things that I've worked on. So I think by far, you know, depression, whether it's postpartum, you know, perinatal depression, I think is a better term for it, is still the most widely diagnosed condition. And the signs and symptoms can look very similar to the baby blues, which a lot of people will have right after a child is born. A child comes into their lives. 

Irritability, crying, more decreased sleep, trouble concentrating, mood swings, those kinds of things. And up for about two weeks after the arrival of the child. That can be considered normal and not quite meet the diagnosis for depression. But if it persists for more than two weeks and it's interfering with your daily life activities, then that's often sufficient for a diagnosis of depression. Interestingly, anxiety is one of the symptoms of depression, which is challenging. And then the perinatal anxiety often goes right along with it, which includes sort of a heightened sense of fear about something that could happen, often related to the baby or the child. And it can include some intrusive thoughts and things of that nature. A lot of the signs of anxiety and depression are very similar and there's a lot of overlap. 

So it really can take qualified mental health professional or healthcare provider physician somewhere of that nature to really make the diagnosis. And there are also some online sort of evaluation tools that have been validated to help individuals and their providers sort of determine if they meet the criteria for those diagnoses. So those are probably the two most common ones. Much less common are Other perinatal disorders like ICD, obsessive compulsive disorder, which often sort of revolves around this sort of intense anxiety or fear that something could happen, usually to the baby. And so as a result, again, it can happen to moms, dads, any parent, they'll kind of do these obsessive behaviors to sort of try to reduce the risk that something like that could happen. 

Panic attacks, panic disorders, postpartum post-traumatic stress disorders, which can happen particularly after, like a very traumatic birth or delivery experience. And then very rarely, things like bipolar disorders or even psychosis. Again, we're talking extremely small percentages of individuals who end up getting diagnosed with those. But still, it's important to know that they exist and that just being in that perinatal season of life can potentially increase the risk of these conditions developing. Just because that puts it on our radar to be on the lookout for those kinds of things. 

Yeah, 100%. I was rereading your chapter on mental health in preparation for our interview, and I was just reminded of the many risk factors that can be seen, and especially with something like postpartum psychosis, like, you really are relying on partners and other people in your life to recognize those symptoms. And so I do think your book is really prerequisite reading for everybody in the workplace, but also the partners of those who are going through the pregnancy journey or who are along the pregnancy journey as well, so that they can support their partners and also watch for these signs and symptoms in themselves as well. It was interesting when you mentioned that anxiety is one symptom of depression and how the two often go hand in hand. 

And throughout my life, it's been very much mood disorder for me, a tendency towards severe clinical depression. And I often have these, like, moments of anxiety. And that was one thing that was very triggered by my pregnancy. I remember feeling scared to walk up and down the stairs in my house with my daughter. Like, I kept thinking I would fall and she would get hurt, or that she would stop breathing in the middle of the night if I didn't have her in her bassinet in a right position or she wasn't getting enough sleep, that was going to be detrimental to her brain development. I mean, I think part of it, of course, is veterinary professional. We have all this knowledge and as you said at the beginning, we're very like, evidence based. 

And so a lot of us have done a lot of reading and we know the things to watch for and all of these things. And that coupled with sleep deprivation, preexisting mental health Challenges and, you know, various other risk factors that you talk about in your book. It's just a recipe for a lot of these challenges to come up. So, again, I can't stress it enough. I think it's so important that we're talking about this. One of the big reasons I also love the fact that we're talking about this is because shame and stigma are such huge factors that prevent individuals from getting help. And I'm wondering, what do you see as some of the common myths and misunderstandings about perinatal mental health that you would like to see dismantled, especially within the veterinary community? 

I would say probably one of the big ones that we may just sort of instinctually say to ourselves is that we should be able to get through this on our own. And I think that there's also this sort of message from society when particularly moms talk about what they're experiencing, we get this, well, you wanted this, isn't this what you wanted? Isn't this what you asked for? Nobody forced you to have a kid. You're the one who wanted to have a family. So. So this is what it is. Our society is often very fragmented in terms of having a lot of family nearby. 

I definitely remember not having any sense of how important it would be to have my family nearby until I moved to an entirely different part of the country and then discovered I was pregnant for the first time and had no family nearby. And I think a lot of us are in similar situations where we don't have sort of a built-in village all kind of ready to go. And our society has sort of fed us this very individualist, kind of pull yourself up by your bootstraps and just get through it, suck it up, kind of keep going, don't complain. And I think as veterinary professionals, we are sort of brought up to be all caring, all sacrificing, all knowing and then on top of it. Now we are modern women who can have it all. 

We can have a career, we can have a family, we can do it all, we're very smart, so we should be able to do this. And so I think probably a lot of us get hung up on all of those messages. Not to mention when you're in the throes of it and you're not sleeping and you've got all these hormones sort of swimming around in your body and in your brain and you're just not thinking clearly, you're not in the best place to say, oh, you know what, I probably need help, I probably need support, I probably need to talk to someone, I may need medication. I at least need someone to help me sleep more. We're not necessarily in a place to make those decisions. Sort of a clear sound in mind. So I think that is a big part of it. 

Another topic that I think I've just started reading about that I think is really interesting, and we'll need to kind of see where this goes. But I've read some articles from individuals in mental health professions suggesting that they're moving away from this idea that depression is a disease or a disorder at all, versus rather being a normal response to stressors, not only psychological stressors, but stressors in the body. And I think there's a lot of stigma just with the idea of, like, I have a disease, I don't want anyone to know, don't tell anybody. Because what are people going to think about me? Are they going to see me as less competent, as a veterinarian, as a professional? Am I going to get denied health insurance? What are the repercussions of me admitting that I have this disease? 

Because there's something about mental health that people see as unprofessional, incompetent, whatever word like that you want to throw at it. And so it just puts this horrible stigma that no one wants to get diagnosed with any condition, that people could potentially look at them as somehow less than. But if you frame it as this is what anyone's body would do when they are confronted with this just this overwhelming stress. Of course my brain is not happy right now. Of course my body is not. Okay, let's do what we need to do to change that. And it's not always entirely just medication, although I do think medication can be a very helpful and very important part of it. Let's change the way our society and our culture works. 

That could be the workplace, that could be our family, it could be our home, it could be our neighborhood, whatever that is, our society as a whole, our government to better support those individuals so that they don't have this crushing weight of everything on their shoulders. And then we judge them when they reach out and say that it's hard. So I think there are so many parts of it that need to be addressed and need to be changed. And I think talking about it is probably one of the first and most important things that we can do. Because when you and I stand up and say, I have been diagnosed with postpartum depression, I have been diagnosed with major depression, I think it can make it a little less scary for others to say, you know what? I think I might have that too. 

I think I might be suffering from that right now, or maybe that's what that was in the past. And I didn't need to feel so bad about the fact that I was crying every day when I had my baby and I was supposed to be so happy. I think that accomplishes a lot. But I think we also need to think about better ways to support individuals who are really suffering from some of the things that we're talking about so that they don't feel like they need to go it alone. Yeah. 

What an interesting way to look at it because it really does highlight the systemic issues that predispose or contribute, I guess, to this higher incidence of mental health challenges than we've ever seen in society before. Because where we used to raise children in villages or among groups of women or caregivers, that's just not the way. And I remember I had my daughter in June of 2020. So it was at the very beginning. I know your son, your youngest, is just a little bit younger than Bethany. It was so hard. I became a single mom by choice. And so, yes, I chose to get pregnant and I chose to get pregnant on my own. 

I did not choose for a pandemic to happen at the same time, I had all these supports built up and all of them went out the window just months before she was born. And it was the most excruciating thing I have ever gone through in my life. I felt so isolated, so alone, so sleep deprived. And this is coming from an emergency and critical care specialist where I'm used to working overnights and doing these things. But like you said, everything additive with the hormone shifts and the isolation, the lack of support, everything else, I can't even put words to it in terms of how difficult it was. Thankfully, when I took Bethany for her eight-week vaccines, I was a mess. I was just sobbing the whole time. And the nurse was like, your daughter is healthy. I'm not worried about her at all. 

We need to talk about you. She insisted that I connect with my physician and provided several postpartum supports for me. You mention in your book chapter, Several avenues for support, Medications, therapy, support groups, self-care. Talk us through it. What are all the different things that people really should be mindful of and hopefully have thought of in advance of this so that they've got those supports at the ready when they need them? 

Yeah, I would say, like, for each individual it might be a little bit different, but I would say start with whoever you're most comfortable Reaching out to whether that's your human healthcare provider. And I know it looks different in different countries, whether that's a doctor or a nurse or health visitor or whoever you're making contact with, one, they should be trained to screen you for perinatal mental health disorders. And when they ask you how you're doing, like, that is not a time to just say you're fine. When you assume that they don't want to hear about how hard your life is, like, that is really the time to talk about it. So I would say whoever is monitoring whether it's during pregnancy or after giving birth again, some individuals have not been pregnant or given birth and can still be affected by these challenges. 

So their own healthcare provider is a great first start for my own postpartum challenges. Ended up reaching out to Postpartum Support International, which is a website that helps pair individuals with mental health counselors who are trained to support individuals who are experiencing perinatal mental health challenges. And they also coordinate support groups in local areas and online. And some of the support groups are specific to certain identities like military moms, black moms, postpartum dads, or there are different. So support groups, and some of them are just kind of general perinatal mental health support groups so that there are opportunities, whether it's to meet individually with someone, whether it's to meet in a group. Both healthcare providers and psychiatrists can prescribe medication. And I know I for one was very hesitant to start taking medication, but it made such a huge difference in my life. 

I took it while breastfeeding, I took it during my next pregnancy, and still taking it. It really made a huge difference in my day-to-day experience. And lots of different kinds of healthcare providers are able to start an individual on that path. They may eventually want you to see someone else who's maybe more specialized in prescribing those types of medications. But lots of different healthcare providers can sort of start an individual on that path. And then don't underestimate the importance of talking to family friends. It might be coworkers, whoever you feel most trusted and safe going to. Because I could just say, in my experience, it wasn't me saying, you know what? I think I probably need to get help. It was my sister saying, you know what? Doesn't sound like you're okay. 

And she was on the other side of the country, but she could hear it through the phone. And then eventually it was both of my sisters, and then eventually it was my obstetrician who all said, and it took multiple People saying, you know what? Every time I ask if you're okay, you start crying. That's a little bit too much like we need to address something because you're saying you're fine, but you don't look fine, you don't sound fine. And I was trying to put on a very brave face because I figured that was just all I could do. And if you're that person for someone else being brave enough to say, very lovingly worried about you, I would like to help you. And have you thought about reaching out for some resources and maybe we can look them up together? 

Maybe I can go on the website and get some phone numbers for you. Sometimes it just takes removing one little barrier and having someone show you that they care. They're willing to walk alongside you and let you know that they're not judging you in any way. They want you to get that help and that you deserve it. So I think any of those avenues can be great places to start, depending on the circumstances. 

I love that. Such great advice. Emily, I know that you're a big advocate for having parental leaves in vet medicine. For veterinary professionals, especially as someone who lives in the US it's very different compared to what we, for example, have access to here in Canada. Even outside of advocating for parental leaves, what can managers and coworkers do when they have an individual who's either pregnant or postpartum in the workplace in terms of supporting their mental health journey? Are there any pieces of advice that you would give? 

Yeah, there are a lot of things that they can do. And it's sad to me to have to say this, but I would say the first step is just avoiding discrimination, which is something a lot of individuals worry about and I think can be a source of stress and anxiety because they're worried about how their coworkers and how their boss will react. We work in a profession where we're very busy, we're very stressed out, a lot is expected of us. And when we feel like our coworker is not pulling their weight, doing their fair share, there can be the tendency to develop some resentment and to display that. But that's not helpful to anybody. 

We all are humans apart from being veterinary professionals, and we all get to live our lives and make choices for our lives that may in some cases impact our day-to-day experiences at work. But that's just part of life. Growing a family is not the only way in which that happens. So just showing understanding and empathy and grace to individuals who are growing their families I think is important and following all applicable laws regarding discrimination, creating a culture of psychological safety where people feel like they can come and tell you things about their lives. Some individuals want everyone to know when they're trying to conceive. They're going to tell everybody at work. They're just excited about it and maybe very open about things like that and they want to tell everyone. 

Others are going to be very secretive about it, maybe just because it's who they are or because they're scared of how they'll be perceived or what will be said to them, if they'll be passed over for promotion or if they might even be fired. When I was researching my book, these were very real concerns that I heard from others. So just being careful of the way that you talk about others and their life circumstances and their family journeys I think is important. Practicing psychological safety so that others feel like they can come to you with their news I think can be huge. Parental leave, I mean, I can't overemphasize how important that is. 

We know that veterinary practices are small businesses and so they're not going to be able to compete necessarily with the types of benefits and offerings that large companies like Google are going to be able to offer their employees. No one is asking you to give six months of 100% paid leave to all your employees. We know that's not going to be realistic for most companies. But there are ways to do something, whether it's just even offering more unpaid leave, allowing employees to be gone for a longer period of time, or offering partially paid leave, or offering. In the US we use short term disability a lot for leave, which is not the best in and of itself, but sometimes it's the only thing that we can get. 

So researching the options to offer to employees, avoiding any sort of microaggressions, little comments about, oh, she's leaving early because she has a kid, must be nice. I mean, these kinds of things get said all the time. And as conscientious, hardworking individuals, we don't want to be told that we are somehow shirking our responsibility. That can really get into our psyche and contribute to our overall state of mental health. When we feel like we're being told that we're not doing a good enough job, that can eat away at us. So just making sure that you're setting up a culture where those kinds of things are not happening. In the US Employers are usually the providers of all social things like health insurance, parental leave, disability insurance, all those kinds of things. And not all practices offer them. 

So looking into seeing if those can be offered if they're not currently available can make a huge difference. Offering mental health coverage as a part of health insurance is also very important. Again, usually that's most often available through workplaces in the US as opposed to how it is in some other countries. So just creating a culture where individuals can come as their whole selves and sort of be embraced for that and with some understanding that they have lives outside of the workplace and that those lives are going to be their priority and that they're expected to be their priority, I think can make a huge difference. Yeah. 

Such beautiful sentiments and such important points that you make on a holistic level in terms of the entire team and profession supporting individuals who are, as you said, going through this expansion of their family. I know that you do coach veterinarians who are wanting to plan for their parental leave, so I want you to be able to share that information with our listeners. I feel like I could talk to you all day, but I do want to give you the chance to share with listeners. Where can they go to learn more about you, the work that you do, whether they're seeking help for themselves or supporting a friend or colleague, or just wanting to advocate for systemic change in our profession in terms of more support for people going through this. 

Yeah. So the main place right now would be my website, emilysinglervmd.com I do talk a lot about my book there and plan to have some more information soon about coaching and consulting opportunities. One of the things that I've really kind of leaned more into is working with employers so that we can make change at that level, helping employers create progressive and inclusive parental leave plans and the other types of benefits that go along with that to support working parents. So I'm going to be releasing a free webinar soon on making we call it Patriarchy Proof Parental Leave plan for employers. Most of my work up until this point has been very specific and very focused on veterinary practices, but a lot of that applies to many other types of businesses as well. So I've actually already started working with some non-veterinary businesses too. 

So planning to do more work with consulting and some individual coaching. Also going to be do some speaking later in the year. I'll be speaking at the DVM Moms Encouragement Conference and Nutrimax's conference in Orlando in September. So a lot of it focused on supporting employees kind of at the employer level, but also continuing to support and encourage individuals who are going through their own life changes and growing their families. So very excited to be able to continue doing that. 

I love this. Well Emily, we are so lucky to have you in our profession advocating for us and spreading your wings and supporting other professionals too. This is such important work. As a fellow mental health advocate, we need to have these conversations more I have your book here. I have so been enjoying it. I want to show everybody the COVID because this is like the most beautiful cover that I have ever seen. I just love it. It's spectacular. Your book is amazing. It's so well written and so evidence based. I really encourage everybody to get a copy and we will link to that in the show notes as well. So thank you so much for your time today, Emily. It was great connecting with you. 

Thank you. I really enjoyed being here. Thanks so much for having me. 

No worries. Thank you. So that's it for this episode of Reviving Vet Med. I hope you took away some tips for better understanding and supporting perinatal mental health. Whether you're navigating this journey yourself or working alongside someone who is. If you do one thing after listening to this episode, I hope that it's to forward it to a colleague or coworker who you think would benefit from hearing this conversation as well. We would appreciate it if you subscribe to the podcast so that you're sure to get the new episodes as soon as they drop. If you're interested in the resources from Today's episode, including Dr. Emily Singler's book, please check out the show notes. You can also follow us on social media at RevivingVetMed for more tips and strategies for wellbeing in vet medicine. 

And if you have any questions about today's episode, suggestions for future topics, or inquiries about sponsorship, please email us at podcast@revivingvetmed.com I'd like to thank the team at Podcast Prime Solutions for producing this episode, and I'd also like to thank you for listening. I hope you'll tune in next time. And in the meantime, take care of yourself. Bye for now.