Understanding Personality to Strengthen Veterinary Teams | Episode 75 | Reviving Vet Med

Veterinary workplaces are fast-paced, emotionally charged, and often stressful—which can lead to misunderstandings, miscommunication, and burnout. But what if there was a way to better understand ourselves and each other, so we could reduce tension and work together more effectively?

In this episode, Jolene Watson—RVT, certified Myers-Briggs® practitioner, executive coach, and best-selling author— shares how personality awareness can transform veterinary teams. Drawing from her own background in veterinary medicine and coaching, Jolene explains how different personality types respond to stress, how communication styles can clash, and why appreciating these differences is essential for collaboration and retention.

We also explore common communication breakdowns in veterinary practices, the connection between feeling understood and staying in a role, and what practice leaders can do to create a culture where every team member feels valued.

If you’ve ever struggled with conflict at work, felt drained by team dynamics, or wanted to better understand the people around you, this episode will give you insight, tools, and a new way to think about team wellbeing.

Watch the Video Version of this Episode
https://youtu.be/XEYcz7gNhGw 

Resources
Connect with Jolene Watson on social media: https://www.facebook.com/ClarityCoachingandDevelopment, https://www.instagram.com/jolene_Clarity/, https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolene-watson-5881612a/ 

Visit Jolene’s website to find out more: https://www.jolenewatson.com/veterinary 

A Descriptive Analysis of Personality and Gender at the Louisiana State University School of Veterinary Medicine (article): https://utppublishing.com/doi/pdf/10.3138/jvme.36.3.284 

An Examination of Myers-Briggs Type Indicator Personality, Gender, and Career Interests of Ontario Veterinary College Students (article): https://utppublishing.com/doi/pdf/10.3138/jvme.0418-044r 

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Transcript

Dr. Marie Holowaychuk - Hi everyone, it's Dr. Marie Holowaychuk here. If you're like me and love staying up to date on what's happening in vet med beyond just cases and clinical pearls, you'll want to check out What's Up Doc, the new podcast from Scribenote, hosted by Dr. Katie Gallagher, veterinarian and co-founder of Scribenote. What's Up Doc dives into the real conversations happening in our industry, from the latest trends in tech to mental health and the everyday challenges veterinary professionals face. I had the chance to be a guest on the show to talk about all things veterinary wellbeing and trust me, it's not your average vet med podcast. So wherever you listen to your podcasts, search Whats Up doc by Scribenote, hit follow and join the conversation. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Reviving Vet Med. 

Dr. Marie - Today we're talking about something that impacts every veterinary team. Stress, communication and team dynamics. And specifically, how understanding personality differences can make all the difference. I'm joined by Jolene Watson who brings a unique blend of veterinary and leadership experience to this conversation. Jolene started her career as a registered vet tech and served as the head Dental hygienist at the Cat Hospital of Saskatoon. Over the years, she expanded her focus to stress management, communication and emotional intelligence, working with veterinary teams across North America. She's now the President of Clarity Coaching and Development, a certified Myers Briggs practitioner, Executive coach, emotion centered coach and best selling authority. Jolene has also won seven business excellent awards for her work in entrepreneurship, resilience, customer service and leadership development. 

Dr. Marie -  In this episode, we'll talk about how different personality types respond to stress, why communication can break down in high pressure situations, and how the Myers Briggs Framework can help teams reduce tension and improve collaboration. Jolene also shares real life examples and offers practical tools that you can start using right away. I can't wait to share this fun and interesting conversation with you. So let's go ahead and get into the episode. This is the Reviving Vet Med podcast and I'm your host, Dr. Marie Holowaychuk. My mission is to improve the mental health and wellbeing of veterinary professionals around the world. 

Dr. Marie -  Well, I am so happy to have you on the podcast today, Jolene. Thanks so much for joining us. 

Jolene Watson - You are welcome. Thanks for having me. 

Dr. Marie - Yeah, so we're gonna dive right into it. You have had such a fascinating career. You and I have known each other for many years now. We've had the pleasure of working together, speaking together, and you know, you've been in the throes of vet medicine and also do executive coaching and personal assessment. So a broad range. So I'm curious, what sparked your fascination with the Myers Briggs Framework and how did you ultimately start applying that to veterinary settings? 

Jolene - Well, I've always been fascinated with psychology. I actually wanted to be a psychologist 30 years ago. And so whenever I was working in practice, I would. If I could get a hold of any personality profile, I would do it for the whole team. And I would. I was curious about humans and why they do what they do right. And. And I worked in veterinary medicine for many decades, but I also kind of went a little bit outside of veterinary medicine. I worked in a human metabolomic research facility. I managed four natural resource companies. I taught Dale Carnegie training. It was when I was actually managing the four natural resource companies that my boss and I were kind of butting heads and I was going to quit my job and I had my resignation letter ready and I just didn't feel valued or appreciated.

Jolene - And to be honest, potash didn't light up my soul. So I was kind of ready to leave. And he said, you know, my gut feeling, I feel like you're going to quit. I was like, oh, I am. Like, do you want an hour later? And he started to laugh and he said, you know, I have a feeling about you. I want you to get your Myers Briggs done. He was fascinated with Myers Briggs. It was one of his passions. So he paid for my. It was a weekend course that I took and it was the step two report. So it went really deep into the 40 behaviors within those four areas. And when I came back on Monday and he looked at my report, he started laughing and he said, yes. He's like, you're a feeler, I'm a thinker. 

Jolene - I've been leading you completely wrong for the last two years. You probably feel unappreciated. And I said, well, kind of. And he goes, well, I have an entire page written down of what I appreciate about you. I was going to promote you to client relationship manager. I was going to pay for these courses. And I remember laughing and saying, well, could I have a photocopy of that? Like, you've never told me any of these things. And he said that he was leading me in the way that he would want to be led, which was not at all the way I needed to be led. And that really led me into the platinum rule, which is to treat people the way they want, not the way you want. So that was really my introduction into Myers Briggs. And then he paid for my entire certification. 

Jolene - Just be a better manager, which was phenomenal. And then he laid me off four months later and I laughed and I'm like, did you know you were going to lay me off? He said, yeah, the industry is very volatile right now, but I wanted to give you this gift because I really think you should become an entrepreneur, become a speaker, and actually do personality profiling as a career because it lights you up. And not only did he tell me to do that, he became my mentor, one of my closest friends. And two months later I was enrolled in Praxis School of Entrepreneurship, which was a 10 month incubator to learn how to be an entrepreneur in bookkeeping and all the stuff you need to know. And without him being the best leader, the best catalyst to see what my natural strengths were. 

Jolene - So that's what led me to go back to business school and to start my company as a coach, a speaker, a trainer, and of course a vet tech. I never let that certification go. Now the second part of your question is how did I bring that back into veterinary medicine? The second I graduated, I approached Saskatchewan Polytechnic where I had graduated in 2000, so 25 years ago now, and I said, you know, I really feel that we should have learned this stuff in school. And they let me design a 16 hour course which I've been teaching now for seven years, all about presentation skills, being more charismatic, confidence, stress management, personality is a big piece of that. Emotional regulation is a new part of that. And then I started teaching it across provinces and keynoting veterinary conferences. 

Jolene - So I've really, I work in all industries, but veterinary of course is really close to my heart. But that's how I really brought it back into the veterinary realm. 

Dr. Marie - I love that. I'm so fascinated by all of this. And I forget I've heard some of these stories from you over the years and I just forget. And what an amazing gift in this mentor and in this training that has just set you on this path. So I can imagine there's some people listening and they're like, what is Myers Briggs? Or they know the phrase or the term, but they don't know exactly what that means. What exactly does the Myers Briggs type indicator assess individuals? 

Jolene - So it's really important that it's not just personality, it's your preference. And the word preference is really important because that's your natural strength at birth. So your personality type does not change, but your behaviors absolutely can and should depending on the goals that you're trying to achieve. So it measures four areas and the first area is how you gain your energy, which is extroversion versus introversion. I know we've all heard of those two terms and a lot of people think it's you're outgoing or you're shy, but that's not at all what it is. It's how do you gain your energy and how do you process information? Is it verbally or internally more reflective, which of course is more introverted. The second area, and this one, you and I are polar opposites, which is really fun, is how you gather information and what you trust. 

Jolene - First detail orientation, which is sensing versus intuition, which is big picture possibilities and really fascinating in veterinary medicine. There's more detail oriented people in emergency medicine because they're great with details under pressure. Less so intuitive people were more about behavior and psychology. Right? So you get different niches even in that area alone with career choices. The third area, and this is my favorite, it causes the most conflict in the workplace and marriage, is how we make decisions and what our go to is. So your natural strength or preference. Thinking, which is more logical versus feeling, which is more value based. And then the final area is your lifestyle outside of work. Judging does not mean judgmental. It means systematical, methodical, planful, which you and I both are. And the opposite to that is perceiving, which is more spontaneous and emergent. 

Jolene - When you think about traveling with someone who's more planful might book all the hotels in advance and know exactly how the days are going to play out where somebody that's extremely spontaneous might say, let's just see where we end up, right? Let's just have an adventure. And I think it's good to be malleable between the two. But we all have a preference in all four of those areas. Hence the 16 personality types that come out of that. 

Dr. Marie - Oh my gosh, I could listen to you talk about this all day. I also lean towards an interest in psychology, obviously dovetailing well with mental health and wellbeing. I just think this is fascinating. Like give me a quiz and I'm going to take it. Like are you this or are you that? I think self-awareness and self-understanding really is helpful for just knowing and honoring ourselves and what we can ask of ourselves, how we're going to act in certain situations and you know, and like you said, how to shift our behaviors when the need arises. So I'm super curious, in your work with veterinary teams, how do the different personality types tend to respond to stress? This is a big topic of conversation in the wellbeing space. You know, the stressors in veterinary practice. 

Dr. Marie -  So what do you see in terms of that in your experience. 

Jolene - Well, and I love what you do on the mental health side and your work is just so important. And I've really, I have just a couple areas of stress that I hyper focus on and one of them is Myers Briggs and it's called in the grip. But it's when you're acutely or chronically stressed, what happens from a neuroscience or psychological perspective is you flip your type to the opposite and it actually makes a lot of sense. And I'll give you some examples. So extroverts become introverted, they shut down, they'll disconnect, they'll stop talking, which isn't necessarily a good thing because they process verbally and that's how they best discuss ideas. Introverts might get really loud and not be reflective and think about what they're going to say. Which is a flip to extraversion. The sensing versus intuition. 

Jolene - Sensors are phenomenal with detailed step by step instruction. So when they're really stressed they actually go really big picture and stop paying attention to details. And this is really important in veterinary medicine when it comes to drawing up medication, for example, is you don't want that happening because then your detail is gone. The intuitives. I actually coached a gentleman once and I said, well what happens with intuitives is they often focus on details that don't matter. So they flip. But then they start to question the ultimate purpose of life. Like they go too big, too quick. 

Dr. Marie - And he went to an existential crisis. 

Jolene - Yes. And he goes like you're reading my soul. I was like, no, that's just a common type for your type. The third one, and this one's actually quite fascinating, is thinkers who are very logical and strategic by nature. When they flip to feeling, if they haven't practiced it, if their behaviors haven't shifted, they become very emotionally unregulated and they. I have an engineer client for example, that is very logic based. She cries when she's really upset. I don't even cry in sad movies like what is happening? And it's if you don't practice behaviors on the opposite side when you flip, it's childlike or inappropriate. Hence they call it in the grip. Now feelers, you and I again are both feelers and a lot of small animal veterinary professionals are feelers. More value based, compassionate, empathetic by nature. 

Jolene - They tend to flip really hard to the thinking side. So they might actually get a little bit cold or abrupt and maybe even mean. So it's almost an extreme exaggeration of the other type. To a point that it's not serving. So just to give you an example of some of the things you might notice in your partner, a child, a coworker, is flip is normal. But if you practice behaviors on both sides, you can actually temper your stress responses and not have that exaggerated response in the future. That was what really intrigued me with the Myers Briggs side of stress. 

Dr. Marie - Interesting. Oh my gosh. I relate. It's like you're reading my soul. You're describing me. Exactly. And you do know my type because we've talked about this and yeah, I can relate to so much of this. I want to get into, you know, understanding the different types within veterinary practice and how that can help us to manage conflict. But I feel like maybe we should take a step back and just share your insights with the audience about where personality, Myers Briggs personalities tend to fall in terms of the different positions in the hospital. And I know you mentioned differences between large animal versus small animal. I'm sure there's gender differences. What in general do we tend to.

Jolene - See in our profession in small animal? From my experience, and I've worked in Texas, but most of my numbers come from Canadian work. Of course, as I live here is feelers tend to be more attracted to small animal. Right. Because there's a deep connection. And I'm getting certified as a pet loss grief coach and feelers really get that deep connection. Whereas thinkers, more logical. Right. They can distance their emotions very quickly. So they're more attracted to food. Right. Edison lab work for example, or large animal. Because yes, they're pet. They're not pets. I think they're pets like I grew up with cows and they were pets. You see a huge difference in that area. Now you and I were just talking before we hit record about the statistics are actually changing and we're seeing more extroverts in veterinary. 

Jolene - In my experience with vet techs is there's. It's about over 80% introverts drawn into veterinary technology. Veterinary office assistants, you tend to see a large influx of extroverts because they're front end, they're answering the phones, they have a waiting room full of people consistently. So it often brings extroverts energy to have a lot of people around. So it's really neat when you start to look at certain career choices and the types that are drawn to them. 

Dr. Marie - Yeah, it is so interesting. And what I gather from the research and we'll link to this in the show notes is there are some gender based differences that we do see, which makes sense. You Know, I think as well, I think one of the really interesting things too, other than just going into food and equine versus small animal on the feeling side is the intuition versus sensing. So those who have more of are on the more intuition side, tend to pursue careers outside of clinical practice or tend to not really know what they're going to do outside of vet school. 

Dr. Marie -  And it makes so much sense to me because it's like, yeah, if you're like big picture and the world is my oyster and all of these different things rather than just getting down into the like, I'm going to apply for an internship and I'm going to apply to these practices. Am I right in my assessment of that? In my interpretation? 

Jolene - Oh yes. Sensors tend to be very attracted to stability and skills and processes and they'll often stay at a job longer. Whereas intuitives, they love possibilities and they're more likely to take risks. Hence entrepreneurship is an easy transition or they'll do it on the side even if they have a full time veterinary job and they get bored really fast. And I'm intuitive extreme myself. I'm very on the 5 out of 5 kind of continuum on that. And every year I get a new certification. This year I'm becoming a dignity incorporated emotional regulation practitioner. The assessments being developed, I'm co authoring a book, Pet Loss, Grief coach, neuroscience coach. I think I've bought eight courses that I haven't yet had time.

Dr. Marie - Oh my gosh, Jillian. 

Jolene - It's kind of neat when you start to look at Intuitives tend to have more careers in general. Like they might lead generation and come back later. And sensors have that more of the stable approach. 

Dr. Marie - Okay, so interesting. Okay, so this leads well into where things can break down in practice because as we've seen from the research, it used to be like very much the same personality types were coming into vet school. I think it was the ESTJ ISTJ that tended to be the dominant type. And now we're seeing all types represented. So different types, I can imagine people are going to butt heads. How can understanding personality differences help to reduce tension or conflict, especially during chaotic or high tension moments in practice? 

Jolene - Yeah, conflict is guaranteed when you have different personality types living together or working together, or even if you have a child that's opposite to you. I see it all the time. Because your brain processes differently, you make decisions differently. Once you deeply understand and it's only eight hours or eight areas you need to understand details, big picture, logic, values. It takes away judgment and in turns that emotion into curiosity. Interesting or you start to look for perspectives from someone you're opposite type to balance yourself out. Even business partnerships. I actually recommend getting a partner that's your opposite or getting a coach. And I always hire thinkers as my coach because I'm speaking. And so again, it's, it goes back to emotions as well. But to be curious and intrigued by why people do what they do really does take judgment out and conflict. 

Jolene - This was interesting. I learned this 10 years ago and it was interesting to veterinary medicine. When we're feeling rushed, hence chaos, sometimes you don't get a break throughout the day. We know this in veterinary our empathy decreases regardless of personality type. So if your empathy's lower and you're in fight flight or freeze or fawn, when you actually just go small and avoid conflict and you're in the grip, all of those things combined, you're going to do things that are out of character. And if your coworker is doing that, you might accidentally judge them and say, well, this is who they are, as opposed to they're acting out of character. They must be stressed. I'm going to talk to them. I'm going to maybe try to assess the emotion they're experiencing versus saying you're frustrated. I might say, I'm sensing you're frustrated, am I correct?

Jolene - And I would do that with clients as well because they'll correct you if they're wrong. But then at least you're on the same page as opposed to judging. And an example that came to mind was I was helping out a veterinary clinic because they just needed someone part time. So as I was running my business, I was helping them out. And a lady had come in and she had signed the estimate. She was a vet student in her final year and she was very upset that the price wasn't what she thought it was going to be. And the veterinarian was talking to her and there was a bit of conflict happening. But then the veterinarian said, wait a minute, you're in exams right now. Oh my goodness, you must be feeling overwhelmed, which is a state which has many emotions. 

Jolene - And the student just calmed immediately. She felt understood and said, I really am. And you know what, I probably did sign that estimate. And you could just feel the tension just ease in. People just want to be understood. Personality is a piece of that. Emotions are a piece of that. Mental health just giving people grace, I think is really important. Foreign. 

Dr. Marie - Hey, it's Marie. Just popping in to share some exciting news. My new book, A Compassionate Calling: What It Really Means to Be a Veterinarian. Is now available. It's a heartfelt, honest look at the emotional highs and lows of life in Vet Med, written for those of us living it every day. You can find it on Amazon, Indigo and at most indie bookstores. Visit ACompassionateCalling.com to learn more and sign up to receive a free signed book plate in the mail. Curiosity and empathy can never be emphasized enough like those. We'd like those to be our defaults anytime things are breaking down. I know you've spoken about employee retention being tied to appreciation and to feeling understood as you just said. How can practice leaders use these personal in personality insights to better support and retain their team members? 

Jolene - I didn't know about Myers Briggs 25 years ago when I started out, but when I was designing my company, I did all the career reports on myself because I purchased them all because I have access to over 50 reports. Wow. And the top careers in the world for the 3% of ENFJs. That's my type in Canada. Coaching, teaching, career counseling, speaking veterinary and dentistry. Going back 15, 20 years, I was fascinated with dentistry and I remember saying to my boss, can I become the head dentist here? And she flew in a veterinary dentist from Vancouver to properly train me and I became the head dental hygienist. I would stay late, I was motivated, I would do anything because she took time to understand what I was passionate about. 

Jolene - And so whenever I do my charismatic leadership keynotes, I always talk about stay interviews, which is am I utilizing all your natural strengths? Is there a course you're interested in? Is it nutrition? Do you want to be the person that does the training right? Or if you want to have maybe a division with dogs and training, what do you want and what courses can I help you? Because it's continuing education, we need points anyways, it's a write off is how I always approach it with leaders is if you make them an expert in something that's natural to their personality strength, they're more likely to stay, feel joyful and be sustained. And so knowing someone's personality and even going deeper into the career niches can really help organize tasks a little bit differently. 

Jolene - I didn't prefer doing soft paws on fractious cats, for example, but I had a tech that loved the challenge. She didn't like dentistry or I worked in a clinic once that had a veterinarian who preferred cats and a veterinarian who preferred dogs. Well, everyone in the clinic knew that if a dog booked in to book it with Wanda, right? And so I think it's really important to veterinary office assistants, veterinarians, rvts, is to figure out what lights you up. And if we can give you 20% more, about a week, would that make you happier? And the answer is, oh, yes.  

Dr. Marie -Yeah, that makes sense because you're becoming more aligned with your values, your meaning, your purpose. Like, everybody gravitates towards different things. And if a person is being stuck in this rut of doing these things day in, day out that don't light them up, then they're not going to want to be doing that forever. Short term, maybe long term, probably not going to happen. 

Jolene - Even leadership, right? Yeah. To be a leader, start getting them courses, start getting snippets of leadership and then grooming them into those roles. Because why wouldn't you do that? Right. 

Dr. Marie - Yeah, that makes sense. I know you spend a lot of time teaching around communication as well, like all of your networking workshops and everything else that you do. What are some common communication mismatches that you see in vet teams? And how can Myers Briggs Awareness help to bridge those gaps? 

Jolene - I'll take this from a client approach. We'll talk like Silencia Librel and we could use that as an example of vet tech or vet or whoever it is, or nutrition. You need to understand very quickly if that client needs details, if they want proof, if they need statistics, or if they're more big picture. So that goes back to the sensing versus intuition. I remember when they were trying to sell me on Silencia, I had no need to care about the medicine side. They just said, this injection is magic. Your cat will be back playing like a kitten. He'll be jumping on the counters again. I'm like, sold. Let's try it. However, the mononucleoto, you could actually go into detail on how it works from a medical standpoint for somebody else that needs that. 

Jolene - Or if you're trying to sell them on a dental, you could get out the actual. Like most people have those little models, Right. And show them how far the root goes or show them the teeth or with a cruciate repair, Fluffy's going to be back in agility in eight months versus Let me show you exactly the research that's been done and how many I've done. That's just one example of we need to be malleable in our approach, in how we're promoting medicine to our clients. So it does. It makes a big difference. 

Jolene - The other funny example I have is this would have been 25 years ago, but this gentleman named Ed used to come in every Week he had more cats than he should have and he'd buy these tiny bags of food and my coworkers would get so frustrated and they'd be like, why doesn't he just buy a larger bag? It would be cheaper. And I still remember even knowing back then, I'm like, I don't think he has a lot of friends and he really loves the interactions. And so I would give him a good 10 minutes of my time and you could just see him lay them. And so if you are introverted and you have an extroverted client or vice versa, it's really important to be able to match their style, body language, word choices or personality preference because we can change our behaviors.  

Jolene - I always go back to that, but I never want someone to use personality as a crutch and say, well, I'm extroverted, therefore I'm just going to blurt out or interrupt because I like to verbally process. Well, that's not always appropriate. I think emotional intelligence is being appropriate for any situation you walk into and sometimes that requires a behavioral adaptation. 

Dr. Marie - Oh, this is so helpful. You've shared so many stories already and these have been so resonant. So thank you for that. Are there any other moments where you feel that applying Myers Briggs made a big difference for teens or individuals maybe in their stress management or their wellbeing and mental health particularly? 

Jolene - Absolutely. The one. Actually I've coached two veterinarians on being less empathetic. They scored five out of five on empathy. But they were people pleasing, getting taken advantage of, taking emotions on when maybe they shouldn't and taking that home. So emotional fatigue was happening. Empathy fatigue as opposed to compassion fatigue. Now when I got certified as an emotion centered coach four years ago, this is really interesting, I had to memorize all 67 of these emotions. The immortal story. So my emotional literacy is very high. But the one thing that really stood out in medicine in general, veterinary or human, is that empathy is great. It's good to know how to do it well and to take on emotions and really deeply understand where someone's coming from. 

Jolene - But the way they explained compassion was I'm going to give you the gift of my presence and my effective listening. I care, but I'm choosing not to take on your emotions, even if I could. And that difference alone has changed how I approach coaching, how I approach my world with boundaries and sometimes just increasing compassion, decreasing empathy, or having a balance of 50 as opposed to a hundred percent. And so that's something that I've been coaching a lot of extremely high on the feeling side. Veterinarians more in preference. And just recently I coached an optometrist on being more empathetic and less logical because her leadership approach wasn't exactly what her feelers needed. And in one year she redid her Myers Briggs and she shifted by two points out of five. Wow. And her team noticed and they were giving me a lot of feedback. 

Jolene - And so I think it's just really neat that you can actually use these reports as a performance review on yourself with your behavior. Yeah. 

Dr. Marie - And that change is possible. Like you can build these muscles like anything else. And I've often thought about that myself, you know, as someone who scores introverted on Myers Briggs. And people say, well you're not introverted. Like you speak on stages and you talk to clients and this, that and the other. But it does go back to that energy and how you refill your energy. And I have worked hard at developing that muscle. I was much more obviously and intensely introverted from a younger age. And that has had to shift as I've moved in particularly into a more public facing role with my company and with the work that I do. So yeah, change definitely is possible. I love that. What is your advice for somebody who's skeptical of personality assessments or doesn't want to be like labeled or put in a box? 

Dr. Marie - How do you address those concerns? 

Jolene - I think how I always go back to preferences is why wouldn't you want to know how people's brains operate different than your own? So it gives you more people literacy is how I look into any personality profile. It could be colors, could be enneagram, do them all. Because you just deeply to your point, self-awareness is important. But in the workplace and customer service, it's even more important to understand that people are different and how to really apply that platinum rule. So with personality, always keep in mind it just shows you a preference. It doesn't mean I couldn't be an accountant, even though it's one of the least chosen professions for my type. But it would require a lot more energy and wouldn't necessarily be as sustainable. So I always go back to that. 

Jolene - Wouldn't you want to know what lights people up naturally to motivate them more and to let them really play in those areas a little bit more. This is one of my favorite sayings is you cannot change your personality type, but you can always change your behaviors. Yeah. And I think that just adds that level of going back to curiosity about other people. And they actually don't recommend Myers Briggs for onboarding for that reason, because you know it doesn't mean you're not going to do a great job just because you have a certain preference. But it's more about once you're in a job, how do we niche it out or find those areas that are going to keep you happy in this industry, keep it sustainable. Because that's something reviving veterinary medicine is. We want people to rediscover their purpose and to reignite their passion. 

Jolene - And I think that personality is a piece of that puzzle that's so interesting. 

Dr. Marie - So what I'm hearing you say is yes, you gain this self-awareness and this insight into yourself and in doing so and in understanding this framework really is what it is and how it works, you really come to understand others. I think that's the biggest thing I gained from it. It's like, okay, yeah, check, check. I see this in myself. But okay, now I totally see how I would butt heads with somebody who is on the other side. So just again, going back to that empathy piece is super helpful. 

Jolene - One of my favorite testimonies I ever received with a male veterinarian, large animal. He was very introverted. He didn't talk a lot during the eight hours that were in this workshop together. But once I got home, it was quite a drive to get to this location, very small town. His testimony said this was fantastic. I know I didn't speak a lot, but I gained a lot of insight from. But more importantly, you saved my marriage. Oh, that is why I do what I do. Because I want everyone to take these skill sets and apply them to their children, to their partners, to their sisters, their brothers. That's where I get really excited. The bigger picture, right, because I always go up here is how can I impact every area of someone's life? 

Dr. Marie - I love that. Jolene, for listeners who are interested, what's the first step that they can take to start exploring their own personality type? 

Jolene - I think the first step would be to write down over the last 10, 20 years what tasks, what jobs that you've had that really light you up. I was co author of a book recently in the last sentence was what lights you up? Do that. So that leads you into where you naturally want to be. The other side is if you want to actually do the Myers Briggs is to if possible use a practitioner Psychometrics Canada certifies us and then you get the full 17 page report straight from the Carl Jung research from 1921. So there's a lot of free versions out there, but sometimes they get a Letter or two. Wrong. And so to do the actual profile, the step two interpretive report is the one that dives deep into those 20 behavioral facets and emotions. 

Jolene - That's the most important report because it doesn't just say, here's your type, way deeper. And then how do you change your behaviors? Change. Conflict, communication. Then there's leadership reports, career reports, stress reports that are very specific, so you could really expand upon that. But I would just start with the basics of who are you naturally and how do you communicate? How do you deal with conflict? And I actually brought these. These are only four of them, but there's 16 books. 

Dr. Marie - Wow. 

Jolene - Leadership. This one is teams. They also have one on coaching, how to coach. Now, this is the one I always give out in my workshops because it actually has do's and don'ts for each of those types.  

Dr. Marie - For communication. 

Jolene - Yeah, I love that. And then leadership. They've done extensive leadership research into how can you be a better leader based on your natural preferences and how to get out of your own way. 

Dr. Marie - I love this. I love this. Okay, so there's a very practical, easy way to start, which is self-reflection. And then if people want to go deeper, they definitely should get in touch with you. We'll make sure to link up all of your information in the show notes as well. Last but not least, I'm going to ask you the same question I ask all of our guests on the podcast, which is what does the phrase reviving veterinary medicine mean to you? 

Jolene - Rediscovering and redefining purpose and just again, reigniting our passion for this industry. Because veterinary medicine is phenomenal. And it's just to make sure you're in the right space. Or if you're an intuitive, maybe try five. Right. But we don't want to lose anyone from this industry because there's a reason you came into it. 

Dr. Marie - Beautifully said. Thank you so much for your time today, Jolene. It's been such a treat to get to talk with you. 

Jolene - It's so wonderful to reconnect and to work with you. In the past, I've had so much fun.  

Dr. Marie - So that's it for this episode of Reviving Vet Med. I hope you took away some practice, practical tips for understanding your own personality and better supporting the people you work with, especially when it comes to stress, communication and teamwork. If you do one thing after listening to this episode, I hope it's to forward it to a colleague or coworker who might benefit from it. Because when we understand each other better, our teams and workplaces get stronger. We'd also appreciate it if you would subscribe to the podcast so you'll never miss a new episode when it drops. If you're interested in the resources that we chatted about during today's conversation, be sure to check out the show notes. You can also follow us on social media @RevivingVetMed for more tips and strategies for wellbeing in vet medicine. 

Dr. Marie - If you have any questions about today's episode, ideas for future topics, or inquiries about sponsorship, please email us at podcast@revivingvetmed.com. I'd like to thank the team at Podcast Prime Solutions for producing this episode, as well as Jolene Watson for being such a wonderful and helpful guest. And of course, thank you for listening through to the end. I hope you'll tune in next time. In the meantime, take care of yourself. Bye for now.