Emotional Intelligence in Early-Career Veterinarians | Episode 82 | Reviving Vet Med

Transitioning from veterinary school to practice is exciting but can also be overwhelming. Early-career veterinarians face challenges navigating client interactions, team dynamics, and the emotional demands of clinical work, which require more than medical knowledge and call for emotional intelligence.

In this episode, we speak with Dr. Tipsarp (Minnie) Kittisiam, a veterinarian, epidemiologist, and wellbeing researcher whose doctoral work at the University of Guelph explored emotional intelligence and wellbeing among veterinarians. Minnie shares how skills like self-awareness, empathy, and emotional regulation can help early-career vets adapt, thrive, and maintain wellbeing in the workplace.

You will learn what emotional intelligence really means in veterinary practice, how it supports communication and resilience, and why developing these skills is essential for long-term satisfaction and success. Whether you are a recent graduate finding your footing or a leader mentoring the next generation, this conversation offers evidence-based insights and practical strategies to foster emotional growth, connection, and thriving in veterinary medicine.

Watch the Video Version of this Episode
https://youtu.be/BSkRVkvXRxg

Resources
Follow Dr. Tipsarp (Minnie) Kittisiam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tipsarp/ or visit her website: https://tipsarp.github.io/ 

A qualitative exploration of the emotional experiences and applications of emotional intelligence in early-career veterinarians (article): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40497294/ 

The Feelings Wheel: https://feelingswheel.com/ 

Name them to tame them (Reviving Vet Med Podcast Ep 1): https://revivingvetmed.buzzsprout.com/2011463/episodes/10874187-name-them-to-tame-them-episode-1-reviving-vet-med 

Dr. Kittisiam’s thesis: https://atrium.lib.uoguelph.ca/items/e0afb4e9-20b4-431c-b698-8c1e82a1b727 

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Transcript

Dr. Marie Holowaychuk -  If you're like most veterinarians, you didn't get into this field for the paperwork. You got into it for the animals, the medicine, and the people who love them. That's why I'm so excited about scribenote. It's AI built specifically for veterinarians who love practicing medicine, not just writing medical records. Scribe Note was designed with vets so it actually understands what a real day in a clinic looks like. Their delightful AI Scribe automates your documentation. Giving you back hours every single day. And it's effortless to use even if you're not tech savvy. You just work the way you normally do. The first week I tried scribenote, I actually left on time 3 days in a row, which almost never happens in the ER. Imagine what you could do with that. More patience, more support for your team. Or just getting home on time.

Dr. Marie – Start with a free plan today and see everything Scribe Note has to offer. Just head to the Scribe Note website to learn more. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Reviving Vet Med. Today we're diving into a topic that deserves far more attention in veterinary medicine, emotional intelligence and how understanding and managing our emotions can profoundly impact well-being, especially for our early career veterinarians. My guest today is Dr. Tipsarp Kittisiam, who also goes by Minnie, a veterinarian, epidemiologist and well-being researcher whose work bridges veterinary practice, public health and positive psychology. After earning her DVM in Thailand, Minnie completed a Master's in Veterinary Epidemiology and was later awarded a seed scholarship from Global Affairs Canada which brought her to the Atlantic Veterinary College. 

Dr. Marie – That experience sparked a deep interest in veterinary mental health, ultimately leading her to complete a PhD in epidemiology at the University of Guelph. Her doctoral research, part of a collaborative project between the Atlantic and Ontario veterinary Colleges, focused on emotional intelligence and well-being among veterinarians, particularly those early in their careers. She's presented her findings internationally and recently published a paper in the Vet Record explaining how veterinarians experience and apply emotional intelligence in practice. In this episode, we'll talk about what emotional intelligence means in the context of vet medicine, how it can support early career vets and anybody in our profession, and what both individuals and workplaces can do to nurture a culture of well-being. So let's go ahead and get into the episode. This is the Reviving Vet Med podcast and I'm your host, Dr. Marie Holowaychuk. My mission is to improve the mental health and well-being of veterinary professionals around the world. 

Dr. Marie – Hello Minnie. It is so wonderful to have you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for joining us. 

Dr. Minnie – Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Marie – Of course. We're gonna get right into it. You have the most incredible journey. When I read your bio, I was just so amazed by all that you've accomplished already in your career, all the places that you've been. And you have a career that spans clinical practice, epidemiology and veterinary well-being research, which is of course near and dear to my heart. I'm wondering, how did you come to focus on emotional intelligence and mental health in veterinarians? 

Dr. Minnie – I've always believed that veterinary medicine is a very emotionally demanding profession. And I think that I've always been an emotionally sensitive person as well. I've always felt my feelings deeply and I always had that kind of fear that would make it hard for me to pursue a clinical career long term. And so with all that kind of guided me to veterinary epidemiology and that kind of study of risk factors and how to prevent disease instead of going into the clinical aspect and dealing with all the emotions of clinical practice. And so the other part of that equation was during my veterinary studies I was really involved in an organization called the International Veterinary Studies Students association, or IVSSA. At the time, IVSSA had a standing committee on wellness, which I believe they still do as well. 

Dr. Minnie – And that introduced me to the issues of mental health in the veterinary profession as well as concepts and mental well-being. That was my first introduction to what is self-care, what is the importance of self-care? And I did my vet school in Thailand at Cassette's Art University. And I believe it's getting better now, is that we don't talk about mental health. Mental illnesses, they were taboo topics, we don't talk about them. So because of that taboo, I think mental illness, mental health overall was such a far away concept, it didn't feel relevant. Almost like, oh, mental health issues don't exist because we never talk about it. And I carried that with me until my final year of vet school. 

Dr. Minnie –I had a really difficult time with my mental health, especially during clinical rotations with all the long hours, the high stakes and the getting yelled at by surgeons and such. This was a really emotionally challenging time. And it continued on quite a bit until I was eventually diagnosed and treated for depression. And going through this experience really changed the way I saw and thought and talked about mental health. And the rest was quite a serendipitous journey. Towards the end of my master's I received a scholarship to conduct research and take courses at the Atlantic Veterinary College on Prince Edward island in Canada. And there I saw this Advertisement For a PhD position to work on this wonderful project on mental health research in veterinarians. And I thought, oh, my gosh, that's such an important topic. I'm so glad that someone's studying this. 

Dr. Minnie – And then a little brain wave overcame me and thought, oh, I would be over the moon to be that someone. So I responded to the ad and I met with my advisors, doctors Caroline Ritter andrea Jones, and, yeah, the rest is kind of history. 

Dr. Marie – Okay, I love that. And I can relate so much to what you shared, you know, throughout your journey. I think stigma is so pervasive in our profession still. And certainly you come from a culture where you're right, like, it's not talked about. And when it is talked about, it's talked about in a really negative way or taboo, as you said. And I know even for me, growing up in my family, we never talked about mental health or mental illnesses. And we have a lot of mental illness in my family, right from like, my great grandparents and down all the way to myself. And like you, it was hard for me until I was also diagnosed with depression and also felt so passionately that we should be talking about this more. 

Dr. Marie – And so I'm so glad that you shared your story and that you've gone down this path. Of course, I know Dr. Andrea Jones well. She's a friend and a colleague, and I think it's so wonderful that you've been able to work with her on this research. So that brings me into the first question, which is about one of your recent articles that was published in the Veterinary Record, and we're going to link up to that in the show Notes for Everybody. So the title was a qualitative exploration of the emotional experiences and applications of emotional intelligence in early career veterinarians. And this paper did such a wonderful job of highlighting the emotional toll of client interactions, specifically on early career veterinarians. I know for me, I was really surprised at the weight that carries. 

Dr. Marie – What do you see, based on your research that you did, as some of the most common challenges that early career veterinarians do face. 

Dr. Minnie – So in this research, we interviewed 21 early career veterinarians in Canada. And as you kind of alluded to a little bit, the emotional toll was the client interactions. And so was cited as a major emotional stressor was talking to clients broadly. And if we take that at face value, it might seem a little bit silly, like, why are veterinarians afraid or scared or stressed about talking to clients. But when we dig deeper, we can kind of realize that not all client interactions end well. And in fact, most don't. And not all clients are nice and, or even civil sometimes. And many of the veterinarians that I interviewed described being verbally abused and threatened by clients on the regular, having accusations thrown around and hearing clients say these really hurtful and harmful things or. And so that's one aspect, that's the client's behavior. 

Dr. Minnie – On the other hand, it's also undeniable that veterinarian's own thoughts and feelings contribute to the emotional challenges as well. Many of those accusations made by clients were also kind of layered with an attack on the veterinarian's character or motivation. Sometimes clients, when they see the bill, they might think they're being overcharged. There's some price gouging going on. It's absolutely not helpful that the corporations are kind of taking over and there's that distrust going on in the veterinary industry at this point as well. So it feels the client's perception on this. And then it turns into clients attacking veterinarians and saying things like, well, you obviously don't care if you're going to refuse treatment because I can't pay for it. You're clearly not doing it for the animals. 

Dr. Minnie – And for veterinarians especially, those who have their careers are a strong integral part of their identity, these attacks can feel really personal and especially harmful. 

Dr. Marie – Yeah, you highlight so many really important points. And I remember when I was early on in my career, which would have been during my internship in residency, and even when I was a vet student and doing externships in practice, it felt very vulnerable when clients were upset with me for whatever reason. I think somewhat because I didn't have the emotional awareness and skills with my communication to be able to manage it. And also because, yeah, it is hard not to take it personally. And I think that's one of the biggest pieces of advice that I tell veterinarians. Early career and otherwise. You know, we often say, you know, they're giving us a hard time, but at the end of the day, our client is having a hard time and we are the ones that take the brunt of that. 

Dr. Marie – Like you said, it might be concerned about the price, but they make it about the vet. And when we're early on in our careers or when we're young humans in general and we're still gaining our emotional intelligence, then we don't necessarily have the skills to combat that. So I love that you mentioned identity too. That's been a focus on the podcast in recent previous episodes where we've really talked about how much we identify with being a veterinarian. And so anything that calls that into question can feel deeply wounding. One of the really interesting pieces that you talk about in your research as well is that many early career veterinarians seem to prioritize managing their clients emotions over their own. I'm wondering why you think this happens and what the consequences are if veterinarians are neglecting their own feelings. 

Dr. Minnie – Those are really great questions and I want to start with the consequences. So there's plenty of both research anecdotal evidence that says that this, like not managing or prioritizing clients' emotions over their own kind of contributes, leads to empathetic distress and burnout. And on the surface level, on the day to day, this looks different for different people. For some people it's a feeling of running on empty, that giving until there's nothing left to give. And for other people it might look like you feel like you're being bogged down, like you're fatigued. And then it can also manifest into this emotional spillover into their home and family lives. And it could be that they're a little short with their partner, maybe they can't afford the same patients that they usually have with a friend. It looks different for different people. 

Dr. Minnie – And as for why I think this happens, there are a few reasons. So first off, considering how stressful and scary client interactions can be, and as you mentioned as well, in the exam room, veterinarians are the ones who bear the brunt of the client's emotions. So considering that, if it were myself, I would also focus more of my energy on managing clients emotions and making sure that the appointment goes smoothly. And for a lot of veterinarians as well, it's an expected part of their job. And many have been trained to manage clients emotions like in communications courses. A lot of the veterinary schools in Canada now teach skills such as reading clients emotions as part of the communications curriculum. 

Dr. Minnie –And I'd like to point out as well that this overemphasis on client emotions isn't an entirely unique phenomenon to veterinarians, because human healthcare workers as well tend to focus more on their patients emotions. And so I talked about how veterinarians are trained to manage clients emotions. But on the flip side of that, most veterinarians have never been trained to regulate or even reflect on their own emotions, myself included. And what's even worse is for many veterinarians, the culture in the veterinary profession is that it's unprofessional to express your emotions at work. And some were taught maybe as vet students that it was unprofessional to cry if you want to cry, like do it on your own time and such. And they carry that belief with them into their early careers. And so all these things combined, like client interactions are stressful and scary. 

Dr. Minnie –We've been taught to manage clients' emotions, but not our own. And this belief that it's inappropriate to show emotions in the workplace leads to many being used to having their emotions on the backseat, on the back burner, being an afterthought at work. And this is tough because vet clinics are always an emotional roller coaster because you can go from a puppy appointment to a euthanasia with little to no time in between. And so what you can do at that point is keep shoving your emotions into box after box. And then after like a 12 hour shift, you go home and you're too tired to process anything and then the cycle repeats itself. And it's really difficult too because processing these unpleasant emotions takes so much work and takes so much time and energy, which a lot of that's after that 12 hour shift. 

Dr. Minnie – And holding it in all day, like you just don't have anything left to give. 

Dr. Marie – Yeah, so many great points. I feel like we do prioritize what's right in front of us. Seems like in the moment the client's emotions are more important than ours. You know, we have to, like you said, get through the appointment or make a decision about the euthanasia and so that becomes the priority. And then by the time that's over with, then there's another client interaction that is going to take priority. And by the end of the day, like you said, a 12 hour shift, there's nothing left to process our own emotions or it's gone from our mind at that point. I love that you brought up this belief system or this culture in vet med where showing emotions is frowned upon. 

Dr. Marie – I write a story in my book about when I was in fourth year at vet school and we had a case on the medicine service came through emergency and I was really invested in this case. It was a hemoabdomen. You know, the whole family was there. Ultimately once we had, you know, the diagnosis, they opted for euthanasia and they were crying. There was kids there, I was crying. And I remember getting feedback on my rotation evaluation that I needed to learn how to control my emotions and that the word, you know, I was too emotional and I was gutted by that. And honestly it brought me back to my childhood where I was like you told me that I was too sensitive and you know, you feel things too much, you know, you gotta let these things go. And I disagree. 

Dr. Marie - And I do feel like of course we don't want to be in the euthanasia room sobbing, you know, when the family is, you know, barely shedding a tear. But I think that there is humanity in showing our emotions. And I agree with you that if we spend so much time shoving our emotions into a box, they're going to pop up at some point. Which is what I think leads right into the next question really well, is if you could explain the concept of emotional intelligence in the context of vet medicine for listeners who may not be familiar with it. I mentioned a little bit earlier about managing emotions. You know, why is emotional intelligence so important especially for early career veterinarians? 

Dr. Minnie -  Yes, emotional intelligence is a proficiency. It's a set of skills in how good you are at understanding and managing emotions. And that includes both understanding and managing emotions in yourself. And it also extends to include using social skills to understand and influence others emotions. I know I sound a bit like a broken record. I've been saying this throughout my thesis research and I think emotional intelligence is beneficial for all veterinary professionals, but especially so for those in the early career because it's a tough time with tough feelings. And I had so many interviewees share the stress, the fear and the self-doubt that they experienced during this time. 

Dr. Minnie – And learning how to recognize and manage these stress, fear, self-doubt or other unpleasant emotions that could come up, learning how to deal with them early on in the start of your career could really help build that emotional resilience. And on the other side of that as well, as we continue to talk about clients and how difficult it can be to deal with clients heightened emotions. There's important skills within emotional intelligence that can help with managing clients emotions and can also help with empathizing better understanding clients emotions and needs and overall in the long term leads to providing better care for their pets. 

Dr. Marie – Yeah, it's so interesting. I think it can't be overstated. I guess I definitely did not have the emotional intelligence when I first started this career compared to what I have now and wish that I did. I can think of so many interactions, more so for me with my peers and colleagues than with the clients per se that I just didn't know how to handle it. I wished I had handled it differently. I didn't have the self-awareness I have now. I didn't have the other awareness, the empathy, the understanding that I have now. 

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Dr. Marie – It was interesting to me and you shared this earlier in our conversation, that it sounds like some vet schools really do seem to be emphasizing how to identify clients emotions and then how to manage those in turn. And so your research has found that veterinarians are more proficient at understanding clients emotions than their own. Is that because of the training that they had in school or is there another reason for that and how does that impact both their work as a veterinarian and their well-being as a result? 

Dr. Minnie – I think you touched on it a little bit and it ties back to what we were talking about earlier with it being taught in school and with veterinarians putting their emotions as an afterthought while putting the stronger emphasis on managing clients emotions. And since I mentioned, emotional intelligence is a skill, so the more you practice it, the better you become at it. And veterinarians have had quite a bit of practice in understanding clients emotions, but when it comes to their own emotions, there's that lack of opportunity of time and energy, and it often has to look like actively making time to sit and process these emotions outside of work hours, maybe with a therapist, maybe with friends and family. And it's hard to find that time in school and maybe even harder after school. 

Dr. Minnie – So it's not surprising to consider that there's less practice done in that area compared to when you're in classes. In clinical communication, you're kind of forced to practice on the clown's emotion side of things. And we touched on it a little bit before, it can very easily lead to empathetic distress and burnout. And what I wanted to point out is that the emotional intelligence of the individual is a part of the solution that we're aiming to highlight. But it's also undeniable that this is also a systematic problem within the profession. And it's very easy for us to shrug it off as the veterinarian's responsibility to take care of their own mental health to improve their emotional intelligence. 

Dr. Minnie – But with the systems that contribute to overwork and contribute to the overwhelming number of cases and the lack of time in between them, where is that time to do that self-reflection, where is that time to process emotions? So I think this system is now potentially perpetuating a vicious cycle of overworking and burnout and attrition. And then you have fewer people and more cases. And so it goes back into overworking and burnout and attrition again. It keeps going around and around. And it can't be a one side solution. It can't be solely up to the individual veterinarian to improve their emotional intelligence to fix an issue that's dictated also by systemic influences. I went on a bit of a tangent there. Sorry. 

Dr. Marie – You bring up so many great points that I think are worth re emphasizing. You know, there's no doubt that the more self-aware and emotionally intelligent a person is about their own experience, that they're going to be able to recognize when they're distressed, when they're tired, when they're hungry, you know, when they need to take a break. And when they don't have that awareness, they will work and work until they are burnt out, like you said. And you're absolutely right that this system does not support opportunities for reflection during the day and processing and debriefing and all of these things that I feel so passionate about. And so while there is some responsibility on the individual, of course there's also responsibility on the systems in place that we need to incorporate that time into the day. 

Dr. Marie – It can't just be go, go manage the clients are priority and then our mental health becomes an afterthought. So I really love that you brought that up. I'm wondering if you can share some practical ways that veterinarians can improve their emotional intelligence, you know, skills that they can start to practice. Like you said, this takes practice. This is an ongoing thing to manage both their client interactions as well as their own emotions. 

Dr. Minnie – Of course, I gladly. So I would highlight that self-reflection is a huge part of improving emotional intelligence. And this can look like a lot of different things. And I highly recommend working with a professional like a therapist or a coach, like the ones at Reviving Veterinary Medicine, if you can, to really focus on developing these skills as well as other important things to improve your well-being. There's a great resource that I always use in workshops called the Feelings wheel. And it's a wonderful tool to help verbalize and name what we feel and to help also kind of pick it apart because it's so easy for us to say, oh, I'm sad and then leave it at that. But that doesn't help us in the long term. But the feelings wheel can help us identify. 

Dr. Minnie –If we look at the feelings wheel we're sad and then on the secondary tertiary levels it can guide us into okay, why are we sad? Is the feeling actually we're feeling inadequate? Is the feeling actually that we're feeling guilty and kind of picking it apart and helping? That can guide the processing of our emotions much better than just saying oh, I'm sad? And as I mentioned, it looks different for different people. So this self-reflection practice can be simply taking a moment between appointments to gather your thoughts and reflect on your feelings before you go into the next appointment. I know there's not much time, but that 's the intention, it's the repetitive process and the kind of grounding yourself. It can also look like journaling. 

Dr. Minnie – If folks enjoy journaling, it could look like talking it out with your professional supports like your mentor, your colleagues. If you're comfortable, it can also look like talking it out with your personal supports like your partner, your friends, your family. And if you want to work on the other side of emotional intelligence, like influencing others and recognizing others emotions, you can always ask for feedback from your colleagues or your texts. When you're in the appointment and communicating with your clients after the client has left, you can kind of check in with your texts and ask like how was that? How did you feel? What did you think the clients felt? And things like that and kind of have that debrief. 

Dr. Minnie – There are so many resources out there on emotional intelligence, so many courses that you can take and I'll just leave it up to folks to surf around on the Internet and find what fits them. 

Dr. Marie – I love that so much. I think that is so important. I think one of the first podcasts I recorded, it might even be our very first episode. It was a name it to tame it emotional identification episode and why that's so important, such an important piece of emotional intelligence. People laugh at me because I talk about the feelings wheel all the time. I bring it to rounds sometimes and I'm like, where are you on the feelings wheel? Good or bad or okay or fine is not an acceptable answer. And so I'm going to link a feelings wheel in the show notes. But I'm just tickled that you brought that up. Let's switch gears because you know, you talk about a really interesting concept in your thesis, which is identifying thriving versus surviving profiles among early career veterinarians. 

Dr. Marie – I use these terms a lot when I titling my presentations and other things, but I've never really thought about it from a research context. How did you separate your thriving versus surviving cohorts? And what can individuals or workplaces do to make sure that more veterinarians are thriving? 

Dr. Minnie – I'm so glad that you point out that it's such a commonly used pairing in mental well-being research and content in general. They just go so well together to give a little bit of background into the research. So historically, research on vet mental health has measured and reported mostly adverse outcomes, the suicide, the depression, the stress, anxiety, burnout and such. And as much as it was very important and needed and led to our understanding of the stressors within the profession, in this project we wanted to understand more on the positive psychology side and how do we as veterinarians do when we measure the positives of life, the things that are beyond us surviving and like say self-acceptance, purpose in life, personal growth and so on. So we came up with a survey that had these psychometric scales which measure these positive psychological outcomes. 

Dr. Minnie – And we surveyed a little over 200 early career veterinarians and we looked at common adverse outcomes like burnout, compassion fatigue, but also the more lesser studied positive outcomes such as compassion satisfaction and resilience and psychological well-being. And in our analysis it became very clear very fast that there was a group that was doing well on all the good things like high resilience, high psychological well-being, high compassion satisfaction, and scored low on the things that we didn't want. So they had lower burnout, compassion, fatigue. So we identified that as our thriving group. And conversely, the other group did poorly on all the good things and scored high on the things that we didn't want. So we identified that as our surviving group and what separates them seems to be the positive psychological skills. 

Dr. Minnie – There's numerous evidence in psychology and neuroscience that indicate how improving these skills can help rewire how we think and improve brain chemistry, increase neuroplasticity and lead to overall positive lifestyle changes which we believe to contribute to this overall being in thriving versus a surviving group. 

Dr. Marie –That is so cool. I love that delineation and I love that you are focusing on the positive aspects of the work that we do and the fact that there are a lot of people in our profession who are thriving, who are doing well. And so let's focus on them. What are they doing? How have they figured this out? And it sounds like positive psychology is a really important piece of that. 

Dr. Minnie –And I'm so very glad that you mentioned both individuals and workplaces and your question, because as you may come across in working with folks through Reviving Veterinary Medicine and this was highlighted in my thesis research as well, is that the well-being of veterinary professionals isn't always entirely in their control. It's influenced by the work environment, whether that means colleagues or bosses or clients. So recognizing this, pushing the responsibility of the veterinarian's well-being only on the individual is not only unsustainable, but it's actually inadequate. It's simply not enough. And the opposite is true as well. You can have the most supportive and fostering workplace in the world, but if you don't put in the effort and the work on yourself, like to unpack your feelings and process your emotions, no one can do that for you. All that to say for individuals. 

Dr. Minnie – Again, I highly recommend working with professionals, therapists and coaches, if you have access to them, and building positive psychological skills like mindfulness, self-compassion and gratitude. And like I said today, we mainly talked about emotional intelligence, but there are so many other skills in positive psychology that can be beneficial to us, not only in our careers as veterinarians, but in life as well. And for workplaces, especially for employers, it's crucial to ensure that you're not contributing first of all to the overwhelming number of appointments and the lack of time between appointments. And then building in systemic support structures for veterinarians, like for example, a friend of mine has a system in her workplace where it alerts her mentors or managers if she exceeds a certain number of working hours in a week so that they can check on her. 

Dr. Minnie –And also building structures to ensure that veterinarians have that time and space to be emotionally vulnerable and unpack their feelings and maybe even to support one another, such as having daily debriefs, maybe weekly debriefs, pairing with mentors, or even doing emotional rounds instead of medical rounds. Say if your clinic already does weekly rounds, could you switch it up and do an emotional round every other week or maybe once a month? And this could really positively impact the well-being of the veterinarians in the practice, as well as help strengthen the relationship in the team. 

Dr. Marie – Yeah, you're speaking my language. I'm always talking about feeling rounds and people think I'm joking, but I'm like, no, we talk about the patients all the time. What about us? And I love that. And I love that you're taking such a holistic look at this, because you're absolutely right. You can take, you know, a veterinarian and put them in the very best working environment. And if they're not able to, you know, self-regulate and practice self-compassion and gratitude and all of these things, they're going to struggle just like any other individual would in an environment that wasn't well. So great practical solutions. And I couldn't be more jazzed for people to take those into consideration. I of course am a huge fan of mental health support from a trained mental health professional. 

Dr. Marie –I have had such an increase in my self-awareness and my ability to regulate just by speaking to that unbiased person. You know, our friends and family and partners can help us only so much, but they're always a little bit biased and maybe they don't see the whole picture, but a coach or a counselor can really give you that third party, unbiased look at what might be really happening. So great suggestions there, Minnie. I'm curious, you know, you've done such a great amount of research and I'm sure that you've taken it all in and thought through some advice that you might have for early career veterinarians or even vet students for managing the emotional challenges of the profession. What would you share with them? 

Dr. Minnie – So for a lot of vets, and I think of myself when I think about this advice, for a lot of new vets, we struggle with our identities and we tend to fall into this trap of thinking that being a vet is the end all be all of our lives. And I was very guilty of that as well. And it's so hard because we've been working on this dream of becoming a vet for so long through years and years of schooling and grueling exams and rotations, and then we kind of lose sight of what it actually means to be a vet. And then we aspire to be this picture perfect vet in our minds who's able to magically fix every animal that we come across. 

Dr. Minnie –And because it's frankly impossible, we feel this immense disappointment and sense of failure that can accumulate and kind of rack up pretty quickly if we don't check in with ourselves. And if I could go back in time and give myself the advice, I would kind of tell myself like, why don't you check in with yourself a little bit more with some self-compassion and ask like, what are you expecting of yourself? Is it realistic? If a friend were to be saying this, telling me this, what would I say to them? And the other thing as well that comes to mind is sometimes I see veterinarians equating being a good fat to over exhausting themselves. And it's simply not a sustainable way to practice medicines. 

Dr. Minnie – So my advice would be simply to check in with yourself, often with questions like, what am I expecting of myself? Is this a realistic goal, would I expect the same of that from a friend or a colleague? And then the other part is, remember that being a good vet doesn't mean burning yourself out and even to challenge that sometimes. And ask yourself, what does it mean for me to be a good vet? Does it mean that you're able to fix every animal that you ever see in your career? Because frankly, that's not possible. Maybe instead it should mean doing your best to ensure that every animal you see receives the best care within your power to provide. 

Dr. Minnie –Or maybe it should be that you prioritize self-care so that you're able to grow as a veterinarian and sustainably work for a long time treating animals for the next 20, 30 years. 

Dr. Marie – Wow, that is tremendous advice and I couldn't have said it better myself. I want to also highlight the fact that other people play a role as well. So when it comes to colleagues, mentors, practice managers, how can they practically support veterinarians' mental health in day to day practice? 

Dr. Minnie – Again, the work environment plays a huge role in well-being. And so it's important for us, as in colleagues, mentors and clinic managers, to foster a welcoming, inclusive and supportive culture whenever we can. And part of that means that we need to recognize that as veterinarians we're also human and thus we make mistakes and instead kind of striving to learn from our mistakes and failures and learn from each other instead of placing the blame or kind of being critical about mistakes that are unavoidable. 

Dr. Minnie – And it's important as well as mentors, someone that early career veterinarians look up to show that we can and do make mistakes, especially it's unavoidable and kind of embody that mindset that it's okay to make mistakes as a practice, there needs to be systems in place to prevent those mistakes from affecting patients, while also allowing new veterinarians to learn and grow. And for colleagues, mentors, clinic managers, it's important to model a mindset that fosters and encourages growth for early career and prepared to support graduates. Because where new graduate veterinarians lack confidence and experience, they make up for it by bringing the most up to date knowledge, the technological advancements and this immeasurable passion for veterinary medicine. And I myself as well, I don't think I've been as passionate as I was when I graduated. I was fired up, I was ready to go. 

Dr. Marie – Yeah, isn't that the truth, right? We are in the honeymoon phase of the profession early on and so everything's amazing and all we can see is the good in things. And so yeah, why not harness that energy for good and support those early career veterinarians as much as you can to keep them as close to that honeymoon phase energy as possible. Well, this has been such a great conversation, Minnie. I so appreciate you sharing your research, your wisdom, your thoughts, your expertise. I want to ask you one last question, which we ask all of our guests on the podcast, which is, what does the phrase reviving veterinary medicine mean to you? 

Dr. Minnie – Oh, I think to me reviving veterinary medicine means rewiring what emotions I associate with Vet Med. I used to feel very stressed and anxious and feel inadequate when I think about Vet Med. Like I associate that with getting ready for an exam. But I'm working on shifting it to feeling more appreciative and grateful and excited. More like seeing a friend that you haven't seen in a long time. And that to me is reviving veterinary medicine. 

Dr. Marie –I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that with all of us. And I wish you the best of luck with all of the rest of the incredible work that you're doing. I'm sure that this isn't the last of what we'll be seeing from you, so thank you again. 

Dr. Minnie – Thank you so much for having me. 

Dr. Marie – So that's it for this episode of Reviving Vet Med. I hope you found Minnie's insights on emotional intelligence and veterinary well-being both inspiring and practical. From understanding your own emotions to recognizing the emotional pressures of early career veterinarians, there's a lot we can do to support ourselves and each other in this profession. If this episode sparked ideas for your own practice or TIP team, I encourage you to share it with colleagues or leaders and explore some of Minnie's research and resources linked in the show notes. If you haven't already done so, please subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss future episodes. You can also follow us on social Media at Reviving Vet Med for more tips, tools and support for veterinary professionals. A special thank you to Dr. Minnie Kittisiam for sharing her expertise and experiences. And of course, thank you to you, the listener, for tuning in. Until next time, take care of yourself. Bye for now.